Quote Originally Posted by OCDshaver View Post
So are you telling me that the population DID want it in spite of the poll numbers that said (and continue to say) otherwise? Are you saying that everyone DID read the bill before it was passed and that Pelosi's "we need to pass it to see what's in it" statement was again false? And are you telling me that we didn't do this based on ideology? I don't care what the bill was modeled after. We probably have a plan to invade Jamaica on the books somewhere. That has little to do with anything.
Yes, I am indeed telling you that most of the americans do want Obamacare, because that's exactly what the polls say when you phrase the questions on substance without politically manipulative wording (i.e americans like the things in Obamacare, just not 'Obamacare').

I am not saying at all that everybody read the bill before it was passed, but that's how the political process in USA works. Demanding a higher bar for bills you don't like while ignoring that the bills you like are passed in the exact same manner is disingenuous.

It is also disingenuous to claim Obamacare is some extremist framework.
If you step back the fundamentals are pretty straightforward. Things cost and to get something people need to pay for it. You don't go to the store and get groceries jut because you're hungry, but for some reason the american society is not willing to let sick and injured people be denied medical care when they can't pay on the spot for it.

The previous system was tried for a long time and it didn't work; those who had health insurance paid for those who didn't, the insurance companies used any excuse to deny coverage and drop people when they are sick or if they were at a higher risk.
The only way to close the loophole of people abusing the system by not paying while they are healthy and still getting taken care of when they need it is to make it mandatory. And that removes the excuse of the insurance company and they can be required to provide coverage to everybody.

You don't get rid of the police or the military and let only those who are afraid hire bodyguards or live in their own secure compounds. But that used to be how things worked.

If you think there's a better way to provide healthcare feel free to tell us what it is. Perhaps you think everything was just fine before Obamacare and the rising costs far outpacing inflation is not a problem at all. Or perhaps you think the wife of the member who needs 15k in healthcare per year which he cannot provide for is tragic but necessary part of life.
I really want to know what non-Obamacare conservative solutions are out there. Other than putting caps on the liability doctors can face (I guess setting one-size-fits-all limits on how much victims can be compensated isn't too big of a government), and allowing insurance companies from one state to operate in another without being subject to the regulations the second state has enacted for itself (even though local solutions and each state being able to operate independently is often promoted as a conservative value when it helps conservative causes). Because neither of these two solves the big issues.