Thread: Obamacare

Originally Posted by BobH

It does not matter how you get a good end result be it through public, private or a mix of those means. It matters that you get a good end result period.

That's only if you're a pragmatist. If you're an ideologue the means by which you get the result is the most important because you believe without question that your ideology is 'right' and always produces the best results. Even if you admit that in a particular case it hasn't it's only because it's not pure enough and you double down rather than reevaluating the validity of your beliefs.

Originally Posted by gugi

That's only if you're a pragmatist. If you're an ideologue the means by which you get the result is the most important because you believe without question that your ideology is 'right' and always produces the best results. Even if you admit that in a particular case it hasn't it's only because it's not pure enough and you double down rather than reevaluating the validity of your beliefs.

And as I see it, that's what the left has done with Obamacare. In spite of it not being wanted or accepted by the populace, in spite of it being a total mystery to everyone in Congress at the time of signing, it was rammed through because it fit the ideology that ruled at that moment in time.

Originally Posted by OCDshaver

as I see it, that's what the left has done

Those evil leftists, always mucking things up. If only everyone was right like us! Please consider joining our humble group, The Conservative Likers - Straight Razor Place Forum

Originally Posted by hoglahoo

Those evil leftists, always mucking things up. If only everyone was right like us! Please consider joining our humble group, The Conservative Likers - Straight Razor Place Forum

Seems to be inactive since 2012...

Originally Posted by prodigy

Seems to be inactive since 2012...

They may have committed suicide when Obama didn't lose by a landslide to 1OldGI's cat Buddy in 2012.

Originally Posted by Jimbo

Anyway, I'm personally very thankful I live in a country that values every citizens' health above the almighty dollar. I think that's why they call us the 'lucky country'.

Well, if the US dollars were rainbow-colored and made of plastic they probably would be less valuable than some average joe sixpack's health even here

Originally Posted by OCDshaver

And as I see it, that's what the left has done with Obamacare. In spite of it not being wanted or accepted by the populace, in spite of it being a total mystery to everyone in Congress at the time of signing, it was rammed through because it fit the ideology that ruled at that moment in time.

Nah, that's just hyperbolae. The Obama people usually point out that the bill was modeled on an old proposal from the pretty conservative Heritage foundation. They gave up on having a public option alongside the private insurers.

It's all political posturing and it's pretty obvious if you consider that once the republican party got a majority in both houses of congress their urgency on passing the 'repeal Obamacare' bill suddenly disappeared. They used to do it once a week until few months ago when they knew it's an empty gesture to the base.

There are supposedly number of better bills they have to replace Obamacare with, except that nobody talks even broadly about their details. All they say is that we'll get cheaper and better insurance and nobody will be forced to buy it.
To me it sounds too good to be true and spending zero effort on explaining how it's going to work and convincing people it's good and possible only confirms my suspicions that it's all demagoguery.

The Right are masters of criticizing and tearing down whatever the left (especially Obama) create. The problem is their solution is "trust us we will sort it out". Thats just code for we have no solution and we go back to the old way which is no way. As long as it puts more money into the pockets of the rich it's good for them.

Originally Posted by thebigspendur

The Right are masters of criticizing and tearing down whatever the left (especially Obama) create. The problem is their solution is "trust us we will sort it out". Thats just code for we have no solution and we go back to the old way which is no way. As long as it puts more money into the pockets of the rich it's good for them.

And the left are masters of doing something over doing nothing when doing something is not always better than doing nothing. Since we are talking medicine, the concept of "first do no harm" should apply. And then of course there are many, like me, that simply believe that this is not governments business to sort out in the first place. Government usually steps in to make matters much worse, then shows up when it falls apart to offer their solution to fix it. And along the way they will drop a few lies about who is really to blame for the mess (never government). Our previous system may have been imperfect, but the last group I wanted to try and solve it was the government. And now every failure of the new system will be blamed on the Right for not wanting it in the first place and all the damage they have done to it. Never mind that it is flawed from the start....and unpopular. But that leads to the next thing. Why was it so important to do this when the people didn't really want it?

Originally Posted by OCDshaver

And the left are masters of doing something over doing nothing when doing something is not always better than doing nothing. Since we are talking medicine, the concept of "first do no harm" should apply. And then of course there are many, like me, that simply believe that this is not governments business to sort out in the first place. Government usually steps in to make matters much worse, then shows up when it falls apart to offer their solution to fix it. And along the way they will drop a few lies about who is really to blame for the mess (never government). Our previous system may have been imperfect, but the last group I wanted to try and solve it was the government. And now every failure of the new system will be blamed on the Right for not wanting it in the first place and all the damage they have done to it. Never mind that it is flawed from the start....and unpopular. But that leads to the next thing. Why was it so important to do this when the people didn't really want it?

Sometimes Government has to come in and make a decision that isn't popular like a kid who needs medicine but won't take it cause it doesn't taste good. When Social Security was devised it didn't pass easily and most probably didn't want it but I don't know anyone who dislikes it now (except for many conservatives). When medicare passed many didn't want that either but I don't know anyone who has it and would give it up (even conservatives). When WWll was going on there were plenty who didn't want us involved. if it wasn't for Pearl Harbor I have serious doubts we would have entered the war. You can find plenty of examples of the Govt doing what is unpopular or not wanted at the time.

Obamacare is the same. Down the road people will love it. The issue these days is the partisan goings on and all the hate circulating and the unprecedented money available to invent the "truth" and the gullible folks who will believe it.

I just got a letter telling me what the bill will be for the street remodel/repair in front of my house will be. They tried to make us feel like we had some input at the meetings! They have some "Fancy" design that most residents say we like it as it is and that is why we moved here. The original estimate was around $5,000 for my lot that is narrow. That has now risen to $5,900 and they have added $1,900 for some pretty light posts. My neighbor will loose the parking in front of her house and will now have to park at the closest 2 houses down. I haven't seen an accident or heard about one there in 25 years.....

Even our city council women who represents us (who I didn't vote for and disagree for various reasons] and lives a 5 houses down from me is complaining. At least to anyone that talks to her!!!

I digress but myself and many of my neighbors could live with and understand the original cost even if we didn't agree with the design. I have this feeling when I get the final bill it will be even more.

Then the kicker is that then they say don't worry about it we will just spread it over the next 20 years on your taxes. But if you add in the interest and management fees the city will charge!!!!!