Thread: do you think we will have a new Waco over this

Amen Jimmy, amen.

I said this in another thread the other day.


The Right is now where the Left used to be.
There are precious few conservatives remaining and with our style of government being what it is, there isn't nuch they can do.
Most of the Republicans are disingenuous at best and many are downright liars.
They use the true conservatives and religious people as "useful idiots" as Rush says.
The days of small government and the fiscally conservative Rockefeller Republicans are gone forever.
Neo-cons is right.

The Democrats are in fact Social Democrats and Liberals.
Radical Liberalism and Socialism are going to be the order of the day in the next election.

As much as I would like to vote for a Republican next year 1) I want my vote to count and since most ignorant people will vote Democrat blindly, I must try to pick the most moderate Democrat.
2) I can't see who the Right can field that even has a chance.

This leaves me with Obama and maybe Richardson.

I think Fred Thompson might have a shot if he'll run. Rudy's got the strongest shot, because even left leaners might vote for him. Rudy's probably the most moderate. Conservative on some issues, liberal on others (which virtually guarantees the religious right wing won't support him). I could vote for a liberal if they really were...but American Democrats really should just change their name to reflect what they really are; the Socialist Party.

Well things seem to be getting worse over this situation. It's seems the only one not wanting to fight is the sherrif saying he has no intention of going in there and getting him. Just wait for him to go to town one day and get them then. I have never heard of this radio place or web site calling for the people to go out and hang these judges.

For supporters of Ed and Elaine Brown, a federal judge's decision to sentence the tax-protesting couple to 63 months in prison wasn't the big news Tuesday. In part, that's because it will have no immediate effect on the couple, who remain holed up in their fortified Plainfield home. Instead, the couple's supporters are reacting to an announcement by the federal marshal that anyone who helps the Browns evade capture might be subject to arrest.
For members of the Free State Project, who see the Brown case as a classic example of government overreaching, the marshal's warning was little deterrent. On a message board frequented by Free Staters and libertarians, his message was described as an invitation to civil disobedience, the better to show the iron fist of law enforcement. One poster suggested bringing small offerings, like pieces of hard candy, to see if the bearers would be arrested.
In a press conference after the sentencing hearings, U.S. Marshal Stephen Monier said warrants for the couple wouldn't go away and said his office would begin arresting and charging supporters who provide "assistance, aid or comfort to the Browns."
"That's to be expected by the feds; they're trying to scare as many people away from supporting the Browns as they can," said Ian Bernard, a co-host of the libertarian radio show Free Talk Live, who's visited the Browns in Plainfield and speaks frequently about them on his radio show. Bernard said the prospect of arrest shouldn't scare supporters. "Bringing a cake to the Browns shouldn't be a crime."
Monier declined to specify whether bringing food qualified as a crime, but he said that simply visiting would be allowed.
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Lauren Canario of Winchester, a Brown supporter who has been visiting the house since Ed Brown first stopped attending his trial, also said she wasn't worried about being arrested. She's faced arrest for other acts of civil disobedience already.
"I was expecting it from the beginning, but it won't stop me from bringing goodies out to the Browns," said Canario said.
But expert watchers of the case said that the marshal's announcement was a smart change in strategy because it would signal that although the Browns are currently free as fugitives, they are still criminals in the eyes of the law.
"I think that the authorities are right to consider charging people who are, at the end of the day, aiding someone who is a convicted felon and who has regularly threatened law enforcement agents with death," said Mark Potok of the Southern Poverty Law Center, which tracks extremist groups, including militias and tax protesters. "I mean, I don't think it's jokes that this guy is sitting up there and threatening to kill people."
Several Brown supporters indicated this week that threats made by the Browns and others were meant seriously. Bill Miller, a friend of Ed Brown's, said in an internet recording yesterday that it's time for "forming posses, enacting grand juries, laying down indictments and bringing the real criminals to justice."
Bernie Bastian, another close friend of Ed Brown's, said Tuesday that statements about the hanging of judges and prosecutors might be appropriate.
"They're public servants. If they've violated their oath of office, they're treasonous. They should be hung," he said. "They don't wait for a trial. They just hang them."
Staying home
The Browns were convicted in January of conspiring to evade income taxes on nearly $1.9 million that Elaine Brown earned in her West Lebanon dental practice, conspiring to disguise large financial transactions and disguising large financial transactions. Elaine Brown was also convicted of multiple counts of tax evasion and failure to withhold employment taxes for workers in her practice.
For several months, the couple has stayed at home, warning that any attempt to arrest them will end in a violent confrontation. Monier, who is charged with arresting the Browns on bench warrants, has not been specific about possible threats at the house, but he has said repeatedly that he will not initiate a standoff or confrontation with the Browns by going to arrest them.
In interviews and a tour of the house last summer, Ed Brown said that the large, hilltop home was built with eight-inch-thick concrete walls, had a private well and could generate enough electricity to operate off the grid. A five-story-high tower was described by the prosecutor as a "turret" at Ed Brown's arraignment. (Brown calls it a "deck.")
Ed Brown has also said that the house contains a large stockpile of food, though supporters have visited regularly since January, often bringing food with them.
There have been suggestions that those visitors have also brought guns and other military supplies. The Browns voluntarily turned over all their weapons in May as a condition of their release on bail. But Ed Brown has been seen by reporters with a gun since his trial and internet postings have hinted that the Browns have received items on an internet "wish list," which called for weapons and body armor in addition to cash and paralegals. On his daily internet radio show Monday, Ed Brown told a caller that marshals had not removed all of his defensive "equipment" when they took guns in May.
Monier specified on Tuesday that supporters who brought guns or ammunition to the house would be prosecuted.
Sentence reactions
As for the prison sentences themselves, if Judge Steven McAuliffe couldn't please everyone, he at least managed to upset both supporters and critics of the couple. The Browns themselves seem unaffected: On Tuesday, Ed Brown went as far as denying the existence of the sentences, the judge and the court where he once put on his defense.
Many in the pro-Brown camp saw the sentences as unsurprising but disappointing, part of a larger pattern of injustice brought on their friends by the court.
"I think that they were railroaded," said Kat Kanning of Keene, who attended the hearings Tuesday and demonstrated outside the courthouse with a sign that said "Fed Bullies: Leave the Browns alone." Yesterday, Kanning said she left the hearings "with a profound sense of sadness at the state of our country."
Other watchers of the movement said that McAuliffe's sentences fell inappropriately on the low end of the spectrum for tax protesters, especially considering the Browns' fugitive status and threats against federal officials.
J.J. MacNab, a tax evasion expert who is writing a book about the tax protest movement and has attended several recent tax protester trials, described the sentences as "disappointing," but she too was unsurprised.
"This is the same judge who didn't see Ed and Elaine as a threat. This is a judge who didn't think Elaine would go home," she said.

It still won't be Waco.

There is so much anti Bush sentiment right now that if he sent the ATF to ram tanks into a building and use CS on women and children he would be lynched.

Although described as a non-lethal weapon for crowd control, many studies have raised doubts about this classification. As well as creating severe pulmonary damage, CS can also significantly damage the heart and liver.[34]
On 28 September 2000, Prof. Dr. Uwe Heinrich released a study commissioned by John C. Danforth, of 'The Office of Special Counsel', to investigate the use of CS by the FBI at the Branch Davidians' Mount Carmel compound. In summary, he concluded that the lethality of CS used would have been determined mainly by two factors: whether gas masks were used, and whether the occupants were trapped in a room. He suggests that if no gas masks were used and the occupants were trapped, then:
"...there is a distinct possibility that this kind of CS exposure can significantly contribute to or even cause lethal effects."[1

This is from wikipedia but they cite references.

Here is video of the ATF torchin the place.

Watch them both, it's plain as day.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9oxgmcLPOVA