Thread: Major engineering challenge

Some further questions;

1. What is the weight of the wire per foot, and can strong light guide wire be used in lieu of the wire. This would of course be followed up by using the guide line to draw the wire though.
2. Can the wire being pulled provide power to something that is pulling it?

I've attached a simple sketch of one idea I had. Also, are these holes habitable? i.e. are they safe and do they have enough oxygen? Trained ferrets have long been used by telephone and utility crews to do long pulls. They use very light fishing line and treats for the ferrets at the other end. If not, I think you could build a draft of what I've sketched for <$500 parts and a couple days work, assuming you can machine, or have some done. The scissors part of the design will provide a good way to retain pull, even when the line drag becomes more considerable.

Good luck,
John

PS If you want 'professional' help on this, you can PM me.

- John

How about using a remote-controlled car? Not radio contolled, but remote controlled. Pay out the control cable with the vehicle. Utilize a high-output motor to pull the target wire down the shaft. Use a treaded vehicle, like a tank.

Originally Posted by Namdnas

.... Trained ferrets have long been used by telephone and utility crews to do long pulls. .......

- John

ferretts?.....o-o-o-o-o-o-o, I lLIKE that idea....only.....

...instead of using ferretts, how about really small badgers?....



....that way, when you're done, you could.....well.....

-whatever

(...think 'multiple-use'....)

-Lou

Originally Posted by Namdnas

...PS If you want 'professional' help on this, you can PM me.

- John

so...what am I.....chopped liver???

Ilija....pass me the Grey Poupon!

-whatever

-Lou

Better than your long stick idea, Lou

Actually, Lou came up with some interesting ideas... Here they are:

heres my rough idea - I'm sure it could take some tweaking - see what you think:

The main idea is to let air pressure force you way to the end of the hole -

Imagine a bullet shaped piece of metal, say 1-1/2 to 1-3/4 in diameter (a little smaller than the smallest diameter of the hole).

there’s a ½” diam hole drilled right through the middle

There’s a series of 8 or 10 ¼” diameter holes drilled around the perimeter (say 1/4” in from the edge)

A real thin drilling mud is pumped out of the perimeter holes – this mud flows through the bullet head and out to the walls of the hole, and fills the space between the bullet and the hole wall, creating a smooth, airtight surface for the bullet to seal against.

The central hole is a relief hole for the air ahead of the bullet – the back end of the bullet is attached to a flexible tube that feeds out to the beginning of the hole.

Seal off the openings, and apply air pressure behind the bullet while pumping thin mud through the bullet to seal the walls as you go – the air pressure behind the bullet is greater than the pressure in front of the bullet (because of the central relief tube), and the bullet proceeds as fast as you can unreal the air relief line and the mud supply line.
Water would probably work better than air since it's not compressible - the key is the two tubes - one supplying the mud and the other relieveing the pressure in front of the bullet - one of the challenges would be feeding the tubes through the seal at the mouth of the hole while still maintaining the pressure seal.

I was also wondering if you couldn't use sime kind of closed-cell foam-rubbber for the bullett - to allow for minor expansions, contractions? Also, you would want the back end of the bullet to be cone shaped (to facilitate pulling it out of the hole), with an annular manifold to distribute the mud to the perimieter holes.

I actually like the bore-crawler idea as well, but we'd need something that's as compact as 2" but can tow about 5km of cabling (8x600m+cushion). Half of that is about as much as a reasonably strong person would want to carry over a short distance. If you're wondering why 8, that's because we'd need one wire for each data channel.

These holes are connected to mine shafts, so I'm assuming there should be enough oxygen, BUT... The amount of wire that needs to be pulled through for 600m is something that 2 strong men could carry about 50m before they get really tired.
If water got used to lubricate the hole, the whole assembly may become easier to pull through. 2 more wires to provide power for the remote-controlled vehicle would add 25% more weight in addition to having a line to pull the whole assembly back. However lubrication would create traction difficulties.

Couldn't you use a tiny motored track vehicle to pull a high strength fishing line through, and then use that to pull the heavier cable through? You said there was no access to the end of the hole, but if that's the case, what do you do with the end of the wire when it gets there?

I am just shooting out some of my thoughts. Alex and I will review all of this in the office tomorrow. Thank you for contributing, gentlemen

Originally Posted by Evan15342

Couldn't you use a tiny motored track vehicle to pull a high strength fishing line through, and then use that to pull the heavier cable through? You said there was no access to the end of the hole, but if that's the case, what do you do with the end of the wire when it gets there?

Actually that's a very good idea.. If we can wedge the vehicle in and pull the line through, using it to send the cabling all the way in, that would solve the problem.
Your other point is a detail that I'm fairly uncertain about is because at the beginning of the line, there's a modular probe with 8 different terminals (1 per data channel) How that's supposed to work is still beyond me, but I'll have alex write a paragraph about it tomorrow.
By the way, is there a fishing line that can pull about 250lbs of weight?

Ilija, can you give us more details and list any constraints... eg,

- the nature of the tunnel (aka "hole")... is the surface smooth or jagged, what are the min/max dimensions, max incline, etc. You say there's no access to the far end... is it open or closed at the far end? If open, can a high volume of fluid (water , or air, etc. be pumped through the tunnel. Can the tunnel be flooded with a lubricant? etc.

- the nature/specs of the wire?

- any intrinsic safety issues (ie, restrictions on voltages, sparks, etc.)?

- etc.