Thread: Why is there a hunger problem in the U.S.?

Originally Posted by CrownCork

People worry about abuse of the welfare system but growing up in a manufacturing town I don't see the same amount of ire directed at the "job creators" closing profitable plants to move them to Mexico or outsourcing to China to get an extra 18 million dollar stock options or bonuses. Basically leaving hundreds to thousands having to enroll in these systems or take jobs that barely meet the poverty limit

The United States has the highest Corporate Tax Rate in the world. Corporations are businesses. They have to make money to pay their stockholders who invested in the business. Their stockholders are like you and me who are invested through 401K's and IRA's.

I do agree that the CEO's and Directors salaries and bonus's are obscene in addition to "parachutes."


Mike

Originally Posted by mglindo

The United States has the highest Corporate Tax Rate in the world. Corporations are businesses. They have to make money to pay their stockholders who invested in the business. Their stockholders are like you and me who are invested through 401K's and IRA's.

I do agree that the CEO's and Directors salaries and bonus's are obscene in addition to "parachutes."


Mike

Close but not quite highest, second really. https://www.gfmag.com/global-data/ec...ountry-?page=2

Corporate tax rates are only one of a number of factors that cause corporations to move manufacturing off shore. Cheap abundant labour that does not entail paid benefits or company pension plans, lax to no labour laws, lax to no environmental laws and the list goes on.

Good luck saving and investing in 401Ks and IRA when you have either no job or the job you are lucky to have gives you a hand to mouth living at best.

All this has shrunk the middle class with some moving up and more moving down the income scale. Those that hang on to their middle class standing have seen their standard of living erode too. I think we are getting to the breaking point as evidenced by the Trump phenomenon and Brexit referendum. Too many unhappy people out there.

Bob

Hmmmm

I can only speak for what I see here in my little corner of the world,,, And we are Damn Good up here


I question the schools (My taxes) paying for meals all year round why is that ???

I do not question that in our County of 33k people we have multiple well stocked Food Banks and two separate very well stocked "Out of Date Stores" plus the Mission..

Out of Date Stores are retail outlets that sell food items of all types that are out of date or near out of date for about 10% of retail.. Before you look down on it go check the cans in your pantry and look to see how many are out of date We all have them I bet except you OCD guys

Our Food Banks are very well stocked through Charity and are ZERO expense to the tax payer and ask for no proof of anything...

The community up here is a tight knit giving group and food drive boxes are always well filled near the door of our stores

I see quite a few people that do like I do, when the stores have huge Can goods sales, I buy a case for me, and drop a case of cans in the Food Bank box, it costs less then $10 to buy 12 cans of real food,, I target Green Beans & Peas because I think of the kids frowning hehehehe just like I did when I was a kid Yes I am mean that way


Now when I am in line at Walmart etc: and I see a mom with 3 in tow and one in the oven paying with WIC checks and her Idaho card it pisses me off I want to know why ??? why is that allowed ???



Get Government out of the Charity Business, if you take my money by force of arms to give it to the needy, that my friends ain't Charity

Here is a rule that My wife and I have used for over 20 years

Never, not Ever give money, see money can be used for Admin costs, in my eyes which I do not believe in

Her and I will donate Time, Talents and Food but never ever cash...

Yes corporate tax rates in the U.S are high on paper or the nominal rates however most corporations only pay a fraction of the rates and in fact many pay zero in income taxes and many get more from the Govt than they pay. The same with most middle class folks especially homeowners. They don't pay the nominal rates either.

We have these discussions periodically. If you get Govt out of the charity business you can just have the system that Mexico has or India has where you live in cardboard houses and beg on the street or like Nigeria has where every morning they patrol the streets of Lagos and collect the dead bodies from the night before so the well heeled don't have to see it.

Every service provided has folks who want to game it. They just indicted 300 folks on medicaid fraud and most are MDs or supply places, none are poor folks. Does that mean all MDs are crooks. Also like others have said rich corporations steal way more than some low classer using his card to buy beer but no one on the right ever talks about that. Instead they gloss over it with some excuse like "at least they provide jobs".

In the end a society is judged on how it treats those who can't make it on their own.

I read a report a couple years back that the #1 health risk for those in poverty was OBESITY!!! I don't see how that can be?

A guy I used to work with in GA would tell us all that he had "friends" who would sell him their "SNAP" cards for cash. Something like $200 worth of groceries for $120 or something like that. He would then load his freezer with steaks and luxurious food items.

Another lady I knew lived in section 8 housing, was on food stamps and her children's father(s) were in prison. She once bragged to me that she needed 2 fridges to hold all her food. Yup, you guessed it, the fridges were full of steaks, lobster tails and crab legs. I was stunned! Used to talk about how poor she was and people would feel sorry for her. That makes me sick.

The County my wife and I reside in has about 90,000 people. Our food for the poor programs are County wide and County rule modified if the source of whatever is State of Federal in nature.
Until a few years ago the WIC program had several stores in the County. Making it easier for the women in the program to pick up what they needed, mostly milk, and formulas because only WIC items were in the stores. The stores ceased to exist a couple of years ago and now WIC product cards along with food stamps only work in the super markets of which there are 4. I have watched check out clerks on many ocassions remove products from folks checking out using food stamps.WIC cards. "Sorry this item is not allowed" is constantly heard. The grocery clerks are polite but firm when having items returned to stock. So that part of the programs seems to work well.

No items are allowed to be purchase in Liquor stores via these programs But there are several liquor stores where you can sell your food stamps and WIC issued cards. The local DA has told me the sellers are paid about 25 cents on the dollar. The result, of course, is liquor purchases, fast food items, and of course illegal drugs. Then the store owner resells the stamps and cards into what I am told are very well structured buying syndicates.

There are daily Catholic Charity give away programs, I think 5 or 6 in the County. One program store is two doors down from my favorite Asian fusion/sushi place. About 20 to 30 people in line everyday receive a cardboard box of produce items from local farms, mostly the items are not sellable by the farmers by virtue of minor damage or a cosmetic issue.
These give aways do not exist past the fall through to spring.

After these programs comes the Salvation Army and two shelters. These places serve one hot meal a day if you were lucky enough to be picked that day to reside in the shelter. If you are drunk or look stoned you will not be admitted.

After all of the above comes the homeless encampments out under bridges, over passes and along several of the local natural streams where the banks are over grown and provide a small degree of privacy. It is these folks who do the pan handling downtown and around our supermarkets. And it is the crack addicted of these folks who are responsible for the majority of snatch and run thefts. My neighborhood and several others are victimized by these thefts and ocassional assaults. I live on a cul-de-sac and spend a lot of my time in the garage were my razor working areas are as well as places to sit and enjoy a pipe or cigar.
The thieves most current MO is to cruise the neighbor hoods on bikes to check not only what may be in cars but watch for open garage doors. If a target is located a quick cell call by the bike rider brings a pick up or van and while the bike rider and van crew steal what they can out of the garages another member of the crew, on a bike, keeps an eye on the access streets into the area they are working and simply sends a quick text message to the bad guys who scatter. When I am in the garage I have a handgun and a 12ga sawed off just in case. Since I am out in my garage virtually everyday the bad guys pretty much just steer clear of our cul de sac. We have 8 houses, a couple retired cops, three Nam combat vets and a correction officer. We are all armed. We all have motion detector lights above our garage doors and most on our side door into the garage. Fence gates are locked. Two of the houses have camera systems that cover the entire cul de sac. That is life here and now. The wife and I were going to travel from here to the Spokane area and over into Glen's general area to consider relocating. My heart issues precluded our trip planed for this year but we will give it another go in late fall.
: P

I am constantly amazed that people are so against businesses and/or companies that create jobs. They complain about low wages, pollution, noise, benefits. And then, when the business decides to move to a better business climate, they scream bloody murder. It's not fair they say. What about our jobs, they cry! Boohoo! Too damn bad, I say! What the hell did they expect!

Yes, businesses provides jobs. At least, while they are still there!

Now these crybabies are going to demand free stuff from the government.


Mike

Originally Posted by thebigspendur

Yes corporate tax rates in the U.S are high on paper or the nominal rates however most corporations only pay a fraction of the rates and in fact many pay zero in income taxes and many get more from the Govt than they pay. The same with most middle class folks especially homeowners. They don't pay the nominal rates either.

We have these discussions periodically. If you get Govt out of the charity business you can just have the system that Mexico has or India has where you live in cardboard houses and beg on the street or like Nigeria has where every morning they patrol the streets of Lagos and collect the dead bodies from the night before so the well heeled don't have to see it.

Every service provided has folks who want to game it. They just indicted 300 folks on medicaid fraud and most are MDs or supply places, none are poor folks. Does that mean all MDs are crooks. Also like others have said rich corporations steal way more than some low classer using his card to buy beer but no one on the right ever talks about that. Instead they gloss over it with some excuse like "at least they provide jobs".

In the end a society is judged on how it treats those who can't make it on their own.

We should get the government out of the charity business. For one thing, there is hardly anything the government does well!

"Every service provided has folks who want to game it". Yeah, notice that it is usually "Government" services!

Churches and the like used to do a pretty good job until "Government" taxes took so much out of the citizens pockets that they could not give as much to their churches as they used to. And "Religion" became a bad word. And, if the places they work are still there, and they have a job if the "Government" didn't tax the company they work for into leaving.


As far as your last quote, you forgot to mention those that, "don't want to work", and would rather just have the "Government" provide.

I call them freeloaders, parasites, scum of the earth! Sometime or other, I'll tell you how I really feel!


Mike

Originally Posted by BobH

Close but not quite highest, second really. https://www.gfmag.com/global-data/ec...ountry-?page=2

Corporate tax rates are only one of a number of factors that cause corporations to move manufacturing off shore. Cheap abundant labour that does not entail paid benefits or company pension plans, lax to no labour laws, lax to no environmental laws and the list goes on.

Good luck saving and investing in 401Ks and IRA when you have either no job or the job you are lucky to have gives you a hand to mouth living at best.

All this has shrunk the middle class with some moving up and more moving down the income scale. Those that hang on to their middle class standing have seen their standard of living erode too. I think we are getting to the breaking point as evidenced by the Trump phenomenon and Brexit referendum. Too many unhappy people out there.

Bob

Interesting stats on that link. United Arab Emirates 55% corporate taxes. Yow. Their population is only around 10 million though. Of that, 8 million are expatriates and don't even live there! I think too damn hot is the reason!

As far as saving, people don't know how to save. And too many, "have to have", on their list. Have to have a nice car, have to have that new iPhone. Hand to mouth? Get another job! Get educated! Re-train! All I hear from many people are excuses.

I was married, with two kids, one less than a year old, going to school full time, and two part time jobs. It was tough, but who says it was going to be easy. I'm sick and tired of the cry babies. Quit crying and just do it. If you are satisfied with a hand to mouth existence, so be it! Don't expect free handouts from the "Government" without giving up some liberties!

Don't try to do it the, "easy", way and steal or rob someone for money. You may get shot. Those that have worked hard for what they have, and have done without to become successful would resent that and probably fight back. Like me.


Mike

Originally Posted by mglindo

Interesting stats on that link. United Arab Emirates 55% corporate taxes. Yow. Their population is only around 10 million though. Of that, 8 million are expatriates and don't even live there! I think too damn hot is the reason!

As far as saving, people don't know how to save. And too many, "have to have", on their list. Have to have a nice car, have to have that new iPhone. Hand to mouth? Get another job! Get educated! Re-train! All I hear from many people are excuses.

I was married, with two kids, one less than a year old, going to school full time, and two part time jobs. It was tough, but who says it was going to be easy. I'm sick and tired of the cry babies. Quit crying and just do it. If you are satisfied with a hand to mouth existence, so be it! Don't expect free handouts from the "Government" without giving up some liberties!

Don't try to do it the, "easy", way and steal or rob someone for money. You may get shot. Those that have worked hard for what they have, and have done without to become successful would resent that and probably fight back. Like me.


Mike

Yes, sure enough some people do not know how to save and must have all the trappings of the good life when their income won't support that. But wait a minute we live in a consumer society so if people don't consume that bad for the corporate bottom line. No problem there either just make credit so easy to get that even those who really don't qualify get credit. Anything to keep the consumer cycle going.

These people might already be working 2 or more part time jobs just try and get at least 40 hours a week in. Whatever happened to the stable full time jobs where a 40 hour work week would give you a decent standard of living in the western world?

Yea, you can get an education, get debt loaded even more with the slimmest of prospects of finding a stable full time job in the last 40 years. A post secondary education today is worth less that it was as more and more people have that qualification. Retraining is much the same thing. Everyone is being squeezed harder these days than ever before.

When companies leave a city and many go unemployed the tax burden gets shifted to the residential and small business rate payers. So now you are squeezing the unemployed/under employed even more. It is a downward spiral.

There was always crime even in good economic times. It only increases in bad times. The increasing need for food banks and child feeding programs, to name a few things, is symptomatic of a society in trouble. Things aren't they way they were 40 years ago, not likely to go back that way either, and it is no sense putting the blame solely on people who wind up impoverished. I am sure quite a few would like their former standard of living back.

Bob