Thread: What Teachers Make

Oh that was great HAHA!!!

I'm proud to have been raised by a teacher/principal. He makes me proud every day of my life.

RT

While I agree that most teachers care a great deal about their jobs and the impact they have on children, the primary (k through 12)education system here in the US is a complete cluster fu .

If it was so great, why do we even have "Hooked on Phonics" and "Sylvan Learning Center", let alone, why are they thriving?

From the high school I graduated from just over 40% of the students were proficient in math, science, reading and writing.

That is sad.

Originally Posted by mhailey

While I agree that most teachers care a great deal about their jobs and the impact they have on children, the primary (k through 12)education system here in the US is a complete cluster fu .

If it was so great, why do we even have "Hooked on Phonics" and "Sylvan Learning Center", let alone, why are they thriving?

From the high school I graduated from over less than 40% of the students were proficient in math, science, reading and writing.

That is sad.

I think a lot of what you point out here (and I agree - kids can't even find the U.S. on a map ) happens because parents don't engage their kids and get them inspired about learning for its own sake. Much of what I learned during my school years, I learned by reading on my own- beyond what the school told me to read because I genuinely found it interesting. My parents had much to do with that. Even a great school can't teach a kid that isn't prepared to learn. Just my
$.02 rant...


Jordan

I can't speak for other areas of academic preparedness, but the kids coming out of high school today can't write worth crap. After three years of editing my college newspaper, four years working with student writing interns and a semester teaching feature writing, I've seen about six students who could write in a clear, well-organized fashion.

Colleges spend much of their time on remedial education--basic stuff students should have learned in sixth grade.

Pennsylvania's teachers earn more than a lot of engineers I know.

Bring on school vouchers!

(Running for cover...)

Josh

There was a time when being a teacher was highly respectable. Not anymore. Today's teachers are underpaid. Never mind that they have summer off. Dedicated teachers spend part of that time increasing their own education. Dedicated teachers spend 12-14 hours per day during the school year organizing their lesson plan and grading papers and projects. And with budget cuts, they spend their own money for items to be used in the classroom. They are supposed to educate our young, yet they are not allowed to discipline the unruly or keep control in their own classroom. Parents don't spend time working with their kids at home, and professional athletes make more in one or two weeks than a teacher makes in a year. The quality of teachers is falling. I can't imagine why.

RT

Originally Posted by JoshEarl

Bring on school vouchers! (Running for cover...)

Josh,


I completely, whole heartedly agree with you. Let the free market run its course. Let those schools which do not perform implode and burn. Give inner city students the ability to leave the slums and get a good educations in schools which actually do their jobs.

I am currently looking to move, and purchase a house. My search is constrained by the school district, and its performance. I am lucky, as I have the ability to move to almost any school district I want, (which basically gives me the voucher for my children to attend any public school in the greater metro area). How about the poor which have no choice in where their children attend school? Everyone bitches and moans that vouchers will close inner-city schools. GOOD!!! If they don't meet the expectations of the consumers, they perish.

Also, I agree that parents need to be more involved in their children's education and upbringing, but that is a whole issue which could have its own forum dedicated to it. We live in a Daycare society where parents spend time with their kids on the weekends, and then wonder why their children are failing, disrespectful and aloof. If people would stop trying to keep up with the Joneses, and be happy with what they have, there would be no need for both parents to work, and one of them could actually, *****GASP******** rear their child (children).

Matt

RT,

I agree with much of what you said, and I think coming from Pennsylvania I have a unique perspective. Our teachers are the second or third highest paid in the country, even before factoring in the rock-bottom cost of living around here. The mean salary for teachers is almost twice that of the average for all Pennsylvanians.

Our schools are mediocre, and the private schools routinely whip their backsides when it comes to any measure.

And the state leads the nation when it comes to teacher strikes. They don't want to have to contribute to their healthcare plans.

I went to a college that educated a lot of teachers, and I was shocked that many of the education majors were studying education because it was reputed to be an easy major.

I love good teachers; I just think the system as it stands attracts the wrong crowd.

Just my .02 ,
Josh

Originally Posted by mhailey

While I agree that most teachers care a great deal about their jobs and the impact they have on children, the primary (k through 12)education system here in the US is a complete cluster fu .

If it was so great, why do we even have "Hooked on Phonics" and "Sylvan Learning Center", let alone, why are they thriving?

From the high school I graduated from over less than 40% of the students were proficient in math, science, reading and writing.

That is sad.

It's no surprise to me that Johnny can't read. .. and the situation has been getting worse every year. Sylvan, etc. are thriving because a few parents know their kids aren't learning at school and know that the school is powerless to fix it. My wife is a teacher, so I know a little about why and how the public education system got into this state.

IMHO, it's mostly related to lack of discipline and a general lack of respect for the school and teachers, by both the students and parents. You would be appalled at what kids are allowed to do (and not do) today... by their parents. Parents (and their lawyers) have taken away almost all of a school's/teacher's ability to maintain order and a learning environment in a classroom. If a kid doesn't want to cooperate (and there's a couple in every class that don't) then the public school system is pretty much powerless to get them to. Meanwhile, every other student in the class is affected by the disruptions these uncooperative kids create. It's sort of a "protect the rights of a few so the multitudes can suffer" situation.

When I was a kid (50 years ago) we were expected to stay in our seats, keep quiet, raise our hands and ask permission if we wanted to speak or move about,and most importantly we were expected to pay attention and do the work. If we violated these "rules" we got punished by the teacher or sent to the principal for even more sever punishment... and we got disciplined again when we got home by our parents. Back then a kid didn't have to be very disruptive before they got suspended or expelled... and then the parents had to find a different school for the kid and pay for it.

When my kid was in school (25 years ago) things had changed dramatically... if a kid refused to cooperate teachers weren't allowed to punish him... it was up to the parent. It took a lot more to get expelled, but the parent still had to pay for an alternative school, so there was some parental motivation to discipline their kids.

Today's kids feel empowered to just get up and roam around the classroom, talk whenever they want, tell a teacher where to get off, and to decide whether they want to do the work or not. And for some reason, kids are not allowed to fail anymore... so even when they get a failing grade they're passed on to the next grade level because it's the parent's decision, not the schools whether to pass a student. Today most parents defend their kids to the hilt and never question the truthfulness of what the kid has told them. Today a kid has to do something pretty despicable to get expelled... and then the public school system has to find and pay for an alternative school. What a great deal... the parents are completely off the hook. Hence we now find ourselves in the situation where everything has to be taken care of by the public school system which is powerless to control the factors which affect the outcome. What a sad state of affairs for the public education system. Is it any wonder a high percentage of teachers leave the profession in less than 10-years? The media always reports it as a low pay problem, but lack of ability to control discipline is equally at fault in a majority of the cases according to surveys. The no-child-left-behind act (thank you GW) has only exacerbated the situation... now a teacher can be fired for student failures resulting from something (s)he can't control... discipline.

As an example of how absurd things are today, recently my wife (who used to teach 6th grade and now teaches art to pre-school thru 8th grade students at her school) was helping a 6th grade student with an assignment at their desk. She happened to glance up and see another student who had gotten out of her seat and was in the process of pulling a chair out from under another girl. Fearing someone would get hurt, my wife yelled at her to "Mary, stop!". Who do you think got in trouble? Yep, my wife... for "yelling at the girl". For "not showing her the respect she deserved". For "damaging the kid's self esteem"! The girl's mother actually called my wife the next day and threatened to "come down there and kick your but"! Further, she told my wife she had instructed her daughter that "if (my wife) ever yells at you again I want you to kick that chair up her a$$". Now we're not talking about a ghetto neighborhood here... this school is in an upper-middle class neighborhood... this girl's parents are both professionals.

What did the Principal do? Well, not what you'd probably expect, even though this girl had a history of getting in trouble several times a week between all her various teacher's. Mostly the Principal was worried about what she would do if the mother threatened to pull the kid out of the school (hence the school would lose money for that student) or demand that the kid be sent to another teacher for art (since my wife's the only art teacher at the school). The Principal was unconcerned that this parent threatened to kick my wife's a$$, nor was she concerned that the student had acted this way. In fact, she sided with the student because my wife did not "display respect for the student" when she yelled "stop" at her. I'm criticizing the Principal, but I also know she's a victim too since she's just responding with what the district superintendent has decided to do because of all the parental threats of lawsuits and moving their kids to a charter school. With some support from their parents, clearly the inmates (kids) are now running the asylum (the schools).

If we want to fix the schools, we have to give the schools the respect and authority they need to get the students to cooperate. Discipline... it worked for thousands of years... why did we feel the need to change it?