Thread: Makes you wonder about people

I agree on most of what's said here.
But I think you guys are mistaking Generation X and Millennials. Gen X is born between 1961-81, Millennials after that.

Most Gen Xer's I know are my friends, and we've used outhouses and were taught about WWII in school. Now the schools curriculum changed when the Millennials got there. They aren't taught what we were.

The future doesn't look to bright if run by Millennials though.

And as to Morals and Ethics..................we're the last generation with them in my opinion.
I try to raise my sons with both, and hope I succeed.

Originally Posted by Dieseld

I agree on most of what's said here.
But I think you guys are mistaking Generation X and Millennials. Gen X is born between 1961-81, Millennials after that.

Most Gen Xer's I know are my friends, and we've used outhouses and were taught about WWII in school. Now the schools curriculum changed when the Millennials got there. They aren't taught what we were.

The future doesn't look to bright if run by Millennials though.

And as to Morals and Ethics..................we're the last generation with them in my opinion.
I try to raise my sons with both, and hope I succeed.

Agreed - Gen X myself...we straddle both worlds in many ways.....

I'm right there with Dieseld!
Geezer - I think you meant Gen Y aka Millennials.
If Millennials scare you, think about Gen Z, they will be joining workforce in a couple of years!

Originally Posted by Dieseld

I agree on most of what's said here.
But I think you guys are mistaking Generation X and Millennials. Gen X is born between 1961-81, Millennials after that.

Most Gen Xer's I know are my friends, and we've used outhouses and were taught about WWII in school. Now the schools curriculum changed when the Millennials got there. They aren't taught what we were.

The future doesn't look to bright if run by Millennials though.

And as to Morals and Ethics..................we're the last generation with them in my opinion.
I try to raise my sons with both, and hope I succeed.

Seems to be a great deal of casting about for explanations - both simple and complex - for where we are as societies today.

IMHO, It goes way beyond fashion. While I'm in total agreement that something must be a bit wrong with anyone who reckons wearing one's pants around one's knees is a sensible thing to do, and that whoever came up with the absolutely flat baseball cap brim has some explaining to do, I also know that fashion is just fashion. It will change. It's also worth remembering that there is nothing new in this: peoples' clothes and how they wore them was put forward as one of the many sincere explanations offered by contemporaries for the onset of the Black death in the middle of the 14th century.

It goes beyond groupings of generations as well. I too am a Gen Xer, having arrived in the world smack dab in the middle of the 61-81 range given above. But what does that actually mean? I have a facebook account, but am well familiar with both outhouses and cook stoves. I now have a pretty cutting edge mobile phone, but hated my buddy's phone # when I was a kid because of all the 8s and 0s it contained. (if you don't get that, google rotary phone...) I grew up during the cold war, knew veterans of both World Wars, and sincerely hope we're not heading for round III. I treat everyone with respect until they show it to be undeserved. I don't feel the world owes me anything, and have worked damn hard for what I have earned.

I last taught at a university ten years ago, and back then we were starting to more regularly encounter students who (I think) embody many of the characteristics that are driving much of this thread. (sense of entitlement, lack of sense of personal responsibility, coddling parents, constant drive to be online/texting, etc) Some of them drove me nuts: not doing assignments and expecting there not to be any consequence; requests to completely restructure my carefully structured syllabus because they weren't "into" something in the course; calls/emails from parents asking to discuss their (adult) child's grades, etc., but to be honest it didn't take long to get them straightened out: after losing a letter grade or two, assignments started appearing on time; after being 'forced' into following the syllabus, students discovered new interests; and no, Mr. Smith, your child is an adult, so he/she can come talk to me about grades any time, but I cannot and will not discuss them with anyone else.

What *really* shocked me was how utterly unprepared many of them were for university and/or real life away from home. May of them couldn't write or make a cogent argument to save their life, but it went way beyond lack of academic skills. In fact the worst thing about my time as a lecturer was watching obviously bright students gradually fall apart during the first semester, then disappear after the Christmas break. So my question is what are doing - or not doing - before they get to the point where they are leaving home? Why are these young adults so utterly unprepared for the outside world, when they have all of it seemingly at their fingertips?

But then when I stop to think about it, I remember that these were not the majority. Most of my students were just fine: bright, smart, hard-working, self-reliant... all the things people say is absent from Gen Y. And these folks have gone on to start building careers as diverse as forest fire fighting, sports journalism, nursing, welding, and academia. So I'm pretty confident the generation isn't a write-off as a whole.

Much of this is very familiar, but while it's true that every generation has despaired for the ones to come in one way or other, there seems to be something deeper, more widespread, and just plain nastier going on these days. Declining capacity for critical thought and the echo chamber of social media and other online forums have much to answer for. But I also think the growing lack of empathy is just as worrying. It seems like more and more people are just unable to even imagine what the world looks like from another's perspective. And as long as that is the case, I fear hatred, division, bullying/trolling, will just get worse. Feed that back into the echo chamber, and it's hard to see things getting better any time soon.

Happy thoughts for Monday morning... Sorry for the rambling.

EDIT: apologies Bob for nudging this farther from your original post: I agree with your sentiment there

Originally Posted by Cangooner

But then when I stop to think about it, I remember that these were not the majority. Most of my students were just fine: bright, smart, hard-working, self-reliant... all the things people say is absent from Gen Y. And these folks have gone on to start building careers as diverse as forest fire fighting, sports journalism, nursing, welding, and academia. So I'm pretty confident the generation isn't a write-off as a whole.

Thank you for at recognizing this. I think it's hard to look beyond the few squeaky wheels which is why we see the stereotype, so I appreciate you doing so.
Much of this talk is no different than my grandpa saying "kids these days" when my dad was in his early adulthood (still says that ). Every generation has the generations above them speak down about them, it's just part of becoming an adult I guess. And yet, the world still turns.

The original intent of the OP I believe was to bring attention to the condition of the world as a whole, which is dim sometimes to say the least. The individual of focus wasn't a millennial, though many of his victims were. So I'm failing to see how this ended up being about what a horrible generation millennials are... again

Originally Posted by Cangooner

Happy thoughts for Monday morning... Sorry for the rambling.

EDIT: apologies Bob for nudging this farther from your original post: I agree with your sentiment there

Absolutely no apologies needed, very well put.

Bob

Originally Posted by Cangooner

Seems to be a great deal of casting about for explanations - both simple and complex - for where we are as societies today.

IMHO, It goes way beyond fashion. While I'm in total agreement that something must be a bit wrong with anyone who reckons wearing one's pants around one's knees is a sensible thing to do, and that whoever came up with the absolutely flat baseball cap brim has some explaining to do, I also know that fashion is just fashion. It will change. It's also worth remembering that there is nothing new in this: peoples' clothes and how they wore them was put forward as one of the many sincere explanations offered by contemporaries for the onset of the Black death in the middle of the 14th century.

It goes beyond groupings of generations as well. I too am a Gen Xer, having arrived in the world smack dab in the middle of the 61-81 range given above. But what does that actually mean? I have a facebook account, but am well familiar with both outhouses and cook stoves. I now have a pretty cutting edge mobile phone, but hated my buddy's phone # when I was a kid because of all the 8s and 0s it contained. (if you don't get that, google rotary phone...) I grew up during the cold war, knew veterans of both World Wars, and sincerely hope we're not heading for round III. I treat everyone with respect until they show it to be undeserved. I don't feel the world owes me anything, and have worked damn hard for what I have earned.

I last taught at a university ten years ago, and back then we were starting to more regularly encounter students who (I think) embody many of the characteristics that are driving much of this thread. (sense of entitlement, lack of sense of personal responsibility, coddling parents, constant drive to be online/texting, etc) Some of them drove me nuts: not doing assignments and expecting there not to be any consequence; requests to completely restructure my carefully structured syllabus because they weren't "into" something in the course; calls/emails from parents asking to discuss their (adult) child's grades, etc., but to be honest it didn't take long to get them straightened out: after losing a letter grade or two, assignments started appearing on time; after being 'forced' into following the syllabus, students discovered new interests; and no, Mr. Smith, your child is an adult, so he/she can come talk to me about grades any time, but I cannot and will not discuss them with anyone else.

What *really* shocked me was how utterly unprepared many of them were for university and/or real life away from home. May of them couldn't write or make a cogent argument to save their life, but it went way beyond lack of academic skills. In fact the worst thing about my time as a lecturer was watching obviously bright students gradually fall apart during the first semester, then disappear after the Christmas break. So my question is what are doing - or not doing - before they get to the point where they are leaving home? Why are these young adults so utterly unprepared for the outside world, when they have all of it seemingly at their fingertips?

But then when I stop to think about it, I remember that these were not the majority. Most of my students were just fine: bright, smart, hard-working, self-reliant... all the things people say is absent from Gen Y. And these folks have gone on to start building careers as diverse as forest fire fighting, sports journalism, nursing, welding, and academia. So I'm pretty confident the generation isn't a write-off as a whole.

Much of this is very familiar, but while it's true that every generation has despaired for the ones to come in one way or other, there seems to be something deeper, more widespread, and just plain nastier going on these days. Declining capacity for critical thought and the echo chamber of social media and other online forums have much to answer for. But I also think the growing lack of empathy is just as worrying. It seems like more and more people are just unable to even imagine what the world looks like from another's perspective. And as long as that is the case, I fear hatred, division, bullying/trolling, will just get worse. Feed that back into the echo chamber, and it's hard to see things getting better any time soon.

Happy thoughts for Monday morning... Sorry for the rambling.

EDIT: apologies Bob for nudging this farther from your original post: I agree with your sentiment there

Yup - that's why I strongly suggested to my son that he take a "gap year", losing Grade 13 was a terrible mistake in my opinion, they're too young, and to unprepared, and the state of most high school education, and I guess Elementary school education, is they are totally unprepared academically when Mommy or Daddy can't call up the Principal and/or teacher and yell and scream at them for higher marks.

My son is taking a gap year, to pull one subjects marks up, and put a year in working, where I've told him that your boss doesn't care much about anything, only whether it's correctly or incorrectly done, you show up on time, and don't have to be babysat and the difference has shocked him. That's the "real world", nobody gives a rat's azz for your excuses, you're not "special", you don't get to say, "Sorry, I didn't know....", you just perform or die.

He's seeing some of his friends, who went ahead and went off to University, crashing and burning...shot down in flames...and will most likely be home and taking a "gap year" after Christmas (if you can say that, you know, stuff like this getting more focus than the 3 R's...)

Much of the problem with kid's academics is the testing mania that exists.

They are constantly bombarded with all kinds of standardized tests and in most places the teachers evaluations are tied to students doing well on the tests. The result is teachers don't really teach they are focused on those tests and all the classroom time is spent prepping for them.

So you wind up with a bumper crop of kids who can pass a test but have no ability to think for themselves or whose knowledge is framed by very narrow constraints of the tests.

Don't even get me started with all the social issues teachers have to deal with. All the kids in homes with absentee parents, being raised by siblings, aunts, uncles, grandparents, dealing with drug abuse in the home and mental illness issues and poverty with kids living in cars in some cases.

Then there is the attack on curricula throughout the country.