Thread: Hybrid Vehicles

Originally Posted by cudarunner

Here's an interesting article by Car and Driver.

https://www.caranddriver.com/feature...mpg-estimates/

Amongst the information is this----

"One last fuel-economy tidbit: Don’t even think of comparing EPA figures with standardized fuel-economy tests from other countries because the test cycles are very different. For example, the European highway rating, called “extra urban,” is higher than the EPA’s by about 30 percent, so a rating on that cycle of, say, 60 mpg, would be closer to 40 in this country. The mainstream press, not realizing the difference, often complains that automakers refuse to bring efficient models here when, in fact, they may not be all that efficient when measured by U.S. standards".

Yes, there are so many things the effect you actual fuel economy compared to what your vehicle is rated for. To get close you need to have a light foot and stay under 90 mph/100 kph in my experience. There are too many other variables that you have no control over that will reduce your fuel economy that simply cannot be replicated in government testing. It's the old saying "close enough for government work" as far as fuel government economy ratings go. It's the best that can be done under the circumstances.

Not surprisingly the EPA and Government of Canada ratings are identical.

https://fueleconomy.gov/feg/bymodel/...Forester.shtml

https://fcr-ccc.nrcan-rncan.gc.ca/en

You are also seeing more vehicles being equipped with auto start stop in order to reduce pollution emissions in urban traffic. As the name implies it automatically stops the engine when you stop in traffic and restarts the engine when you are ready to go if only for a few feet. It helps the Corporate pollution numbers and increases the fuel economy in urban driving.

One of the reasons you are seeing more vehicles with smaller turbo engines is they pack more air in on the combustion cycle making them cleaner burning reducing Corporate pollution numbers.

The same goes for direct fuel injection as opposed to port fuel injection https://www.counterman.com/direct-in...intake%20ports.

If you normally get close to what your vehicle is rated barring any unusual external conditions then you are doing well.

Bob

Originally Posted by cudarunner

Here's an interesting article by Car and Driver.

https://www.caranddriver.com/feature...mpg-estimates/

Amongst the information is this----

"One last fuel-economy tidbit: Don’t even think of comparing EPA figures with standardized fuel-economy tests from other countries because the test cycles are very different. For example, the European highway rating, called “extra urban,” is higher than the EPA’s by about 30 percent, so a rating on that cycle of, say, 60 mpg, would be closer to 40 in this country. The mainstream press, not realizing the difference, often complains that automakers refuse to bring efficient models here when, in fact, they may not be all that efficient when measured by U.S. standards".

Many many of the vehicles sold in Europe have engines that are unacceptably small by our standards either here or in Canada. By small I mean less than 100 HP and some down to 50 or so. Try doing 75MPH in a 75HP vehicle and see what your mileage will be. (I'm not talking any electric assist here).

I lived in England for the first 40 years of my life and drove since i was 18.

I have honestly never seen or heard of a car in England that would struggle to do 75mph, unless maybe a smart car.

It is true that engines are usually smaller but then i have always thought that North American cars have ridiculous engines.

I used to have a 2.3 litre Chev Cavalier in Canada, it wasn't super fast and even if it was the roads here have a 50mph (80Km) limit for the most part so are pretty slow.

My last car in England back in 2003 was a 1.6 Vauxhall Vectra, it was a 4 door Saloon with 5 on the floor and like most cars I had in England went damn quick. The roads in England are 60mph out of town and the motorways are 70mph officially but I always found that below 85 plod left me alone.

None of my cars had big engines and none had any problems getting to 100mph.

I will add that because of the price of petrol, the first question we have for the dealership is usually what does it do to the gallon. The optimal speed for fuel economy is always quoted at 56mph and it has to be taken into account when people compare the fuel economy of European and North American cars that the US has a smaller gallon than Europe, or Canada.

No, I didn't say it couldn't do the speed. I said the gas mileage would drop like crazy. I know even cars with larger engines in the U.S have way lower mileage once you get much over 65mph.

I think that the biggest difference is that in Europe they tax for the displacement of the engine. Therefore it is reasonable to get the best out of the smallest.

Similar that here in the US we like closets but over there a closet can be considered a room.

There fore you have a wardrobe rather than a closet for tax purposes.

Originally Posted by STF

...It is true that engines are usually smaller but then i have always thought that North American cars have ridiculous engines...

Not so much the case anymore. These days the American cars are in fact ridiculously fast and powerful but can still get very competitive fuel economy.
But the crux of it really hinges on what you are after. I had an old pickup years ago that I put a 429 (7.0L) in and it would pass anything but a gas station (mid 13s to 14 in the 1/4 mile depending on the gas I used) ...unless you stayed off the secondaries (spread bore carb. The secondaries were the size of beer cans). I had it for a long time. During that time is when the kids started suping up their little piss-ant cars with the little bee hive exhaust. I used to love to embarrass the crap out of them with the big old burnt orange pickup truck. Why those guys think that beer can on a rollerskate is the baddest thing on the road I'll never know.

Back to the point though. That thing got lousy mileage if you floored it but I didn't give a fiddler's fig about that. It wasn't so bad if you kept the pedal off the carpet but where's the fun in that? It would be a little rich for my blood these days and certainly not your economy vehicle but also not a 2 door speck. If you can stomach the crappy little gutless thing to get your 40+ mpg then more power to ya. Somewhere in the middle is where I want to be.

I hope I don't sound argumentative because that's really not my intention.

Houses in England are not taxed by the rooms so a walk in closet wouldn't add to the tax bill, like here the houses have a taxable value so an expensive house pays more property tax than a cheaper one. Saying that I don't remember ever seeing a walk-in closet in England but that's more to do with the room available. We do have built in wardrobes as well as the freestanding ones.

Unlike in Canada and maybe the States where a buyer of a car has to pay tax every time even if it's bought and sold 10 times, in England tax (VAT) is only paid once when the car is brand new, after that no more tax is paid. That's why used cars are so popular, no tax.

The tax (VAT) is not paid on the size or displacement of an engine but on the cost of the car new (when I was in England VAT was 17.5% but it's gone up since then)and as I said, new is the only time tax is paid except for road tax which is paid either 6 monthly or annually but that's just the English equivalent to the annual license plate sticker that we buy here.
The same rate of VAT is charged on almost everything whether it's a car or a packet of crisps

On a side note, I remember back when the government decided that instead of property tax they would charge poll tax which meant taxes were charged based on how many adults lived in a house.

This was wildly unfair because a single person living alone in a million pound house would pay half as much tax as an unemployed couple in a one bedroom flat and nobody agreed to pay. I remember appearing in court for non payment with about 200 others this particular day. The bailiffs would turn up and people poured water on them from the bedroom windows.

The poll tax was cancelled after less than a year and the government went back to property tax again.

Power to the people!

Originally Posted by STF

I hope I don't sound argumentative because that's really not my intention.

Houses in England are not taxed by the rooms so a walk in closet wouldn't add to the tax bill, like here the houses have a taxable value so an expensive house pays more property tax than a cheaper one. Saying that I don't remember ever seeing a walk-in closet in England but that's more to do with the room available. We do have built in wardrobes as well as the freestanding ones.

Unlike in Canada and maybe the States where a buyer of a car has to pay tax every time even if it's bought and sold 10 times, in England tax (VAT) is only paid once when the car is brand new, after that no more tax is paid. That's why used cars are so popular, no tax.

The tax (VAT) is not paid on the size or displacement of an engine but on the cost of the car new (when I was in England VAT was 17.5% but it's gone up since then)and as I said, new is the only time tax is paid except for road tax which is paid either 6 monthly or annually but that's just the English equivalent to the annual license plate sticker that we buy here.
The same rate of VAT is charged on almost everything whether it's a car or a packet of crisps

On a side note, I remember back when the government decided that instead of property tax they would charge poll tax which meant taxes were charged based on how many adults lived in a house.

This was wildly unfair because a single person living alone in a million pound house would pay half as much tax as an unemployed couple in a one bedroom flat and nobody agreed to pay. I remember appearing in court for non payment with about 200 others this particular day. The bailiffs would turn up and people poured water on them from the bedroom windows.

The poll tax was cancelled after less than a year and the government went back to property tax again.

Power to the people!

"Don't ask me what I want it for
(Ah, ah, Mr. Wilson)
If you don't want to pay some more
(Ah, ah, Mr. Heath)
'Cause I'm the taxman
Yeah, I'm the taxman" George Harrison

Originally Posted by STF

On a side note, I remember back when the government decided that instead of property tax they would charge poll tax which meant taxes were charged based on how many adults lived in a house.

This was wildly unfair because a single person living alone in a million pound house would pay half as much tax as an unemployed couple in a one bedroom flat and nobody agreed to pay. I remember appearing in court for non payment with about 200 others this particular day. The bailiffs would turn up and people poured water on them from the bedroom windows.

The poll tax was cancelled after less than a year and the government went back to property tax again.

Power to the people!

Now that you mention it, I do recall that fiasco courtesy of Margaret Thatcher and her Conservative government. What a brilliant idea obviously from brilliant minds.

Bob

Originally Posted by PaulFLUS

Not so much the case anymore. These days the American cars are in fact ridiculously fast and powerful but can still get very competitive fuel economy.
But the crux of it really hinges on what you are after. I had an old pickup years ago that I put a 429 (7.0L) in and it would pass anything but a gas station (mid 13s to 14 in the 1/4 mile depending on the gas I used) ...unless you stayed off the secondaries (spread bore carb. The secondaries were the size of beer cans). I had it for a long time. During that time is when the kids started suping up their little piss-ant cars with the little bee hive exhaust. I used to love to embarrass the crap out of them with the big old burnt orange pickup truck. Why those guys think that beer can on a rollerskate is the baddest thing on the road I'll never know.

Back to the point though. That thing got lousy mileage if you floored it but I didn't give a fiddler's fig about that. It wasn't so bad if you kept the pedal off the carpet but where's the fun in that? It would be a little rich for my blood these days and certainly not your economy vehicle but also not a 2 door speck. If you can stomach the crappy little gutless thing to get your 40+ mpg then more power to ya. Somewhere in the middle is where I want to be.

Yup, it all depends on your own set of needs/wants and your pocket book. In that respect not everybody is the same. You have to be careful when you speak of mpg because there is a big difference between Imperial gallons and US gallons as in a rating of 39 mpg on Imperial gallons would be 33 mpg on US gallons.

When I started driving gas was sold in Canada by the Imperial gallon but now it is sold by the liter. In 1969 the gas cost $0.45 per Imperial gallon/$0.10 per liter for premium. Today, locally it is $6.30 an Imperial gallon/$1.40 a liter for regular. That is Canadian dollar but you can do the conversion to US dollars and US gallons if you like. Today my priorities are fuel economy over gut wrenching power which I do not need and am not willing to pay the cost to get it. I even managed to find a very comfortable new vehicle to fit my 6 foot 2 inch frame into with all wheel drive while achieving good fuel economy.

For the past 30 odd years I have driven 4 bangers in the 2.0 to 2.5 liter class to both coasts, up to the Yukon and down into the US numerous times. All have been comfortable to drive on these trips for myself and my wife. You don't have to get a small 2 door tin can on a skate board to get decent fuel economy.

Bob