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It has always been my belief that anger is not a good thing. At some point in our lives we must learn to overcome anger and deal with each situation from a calm and objective center! I also believe that if you do get angry It is even worse to try and suppress your anger because eventually this happens:
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,325285,00.html
I believe anger is no good, but to pretend its not there and never face it is worse! What do you say?
I think anger has its place as a moving force -- as extra inspiration to get out of a bad situation or jamb ---- but prolonged anger is not a good thing and is a sign of some deeper issues that haven't been dealt with properly. But as an immediate response to a bad situation I think it is useful. I guess I kind of look at it as the same as a nervous fight/flight reponse --- useful but harmful if prolonged.
Justin
P.S. > But I don't mean your anger should be directed at anyone in revenge or anything, just use it as a motivator to move on and get away from the situation.
Maybe its coz I'm half asleep but what does that story have to do with anger?
It's my philosophy that anger is a powerful motivator, and people will use it for good or ill, much like everything else. Anger frequently leads people to do things they might regret later on. Anger also frequently motivates people to reach greater heights than they would is they were calm and rational all the time.
Well someone doesn't sabotage a entire business upon threat of being canned without a little anger being involved.Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD_SCHOOL
Justin
The woman was motivated by sheer resentment and anger!Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD_SCHOOL
True fight or flight situations aside - I think anger is a fact of life and part of our nature. I think its best to be aware of anger and accept it, but don't let it drive your actions - including your state of mind.
Jordan
Anger can also motivate. It can focus your energy. It can make you forget discomfort and keep you going.
But the key is to stay in control of it.
I am virtually never angry. I've been a contractor for 10 years, and had my share of shitty situations. I was played a couple of times in a manner that really made me angry, but I stayed professional.
If you are dealing with high level managers of different sites of a megacorp, throwing a hissy fit is not going to impress anyone.
Instead keep your cool and pour your anger in a mail to management, telling them politely to eff off, explaining in detail the context of the situation, and that your contractual obligations do not forsee in you getting treated like shit.
If you can control your anger, then it is an asset. If not, then it is a liability.
Of course, blowing a fuse every other day probably means that you have a problem.
I believe anger is linked to fear and a sense of vulnerability, so showing it is a sign a weakness but feeling it is totally natural and shouldn't be bottled up ----- I suppose just find something to beat on (inanimate) in private --- manage it somehow.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruno
I think it depends on the anger. In the workplace, most anger is best left out of it, but some can be helpful. It can show your passion for whatever it is and prove that you take an interest in it. Of course, I don't mean losing your temper- that's bad news.
This woman's fear was irrational and stupid. What seems odd to me is that someone who is comfortable in their job performance shouldn't be worried about losing their job, unless the boss just has it out for them.
Or their boss has an eye for the bottom line only.Quote:
Originally Posted by Quick Orange
There is nothing irrational about that fear. In today's corporate setting, being replaced by someone cheaper, younger, and less experienced is a VERY common thing.
Not saying what she did was right, but being afraid of termination in her situation is very sensible. If I'd been in the same shoes I'd have started shopping my resume around just to be safe.
Maybe it's different in other fields, I work in software which is especially cut throat.
For our discussion about anger and all it's variables we should assume that the story is accurate and the woman just assumed the worse! Even if the woman was provoked or otherwise had a legitimate reason to be concerned I still say she over reacted due to anger and resentment and I still hold that while anger exists, in the long run it is very harmful even if we believe it benefits us for the moment!Quote:
Originally Posted by jockeys
I love my anger and doubt i could get out of bed in the morning if i was feeling happy, content and complacent all the time.
When ever i feel the rage build up or something happens to make me mad then i write down my intended course of action, this has the benifit of focusing the mind and playing out a scenario, then i'll read over what ive written and laugh at the stupidity of it all because by the time im reading im generaly much calmer.
The great news is im never going to loose my anger, theres so much wrong with the world and life in general that theres a limitless supply of it and it feels good to use that motivation in order to make positive changes in life.
So in my eyes anger is awesome so long as its not channeled into something violent or spiteful, then again though sometimes revenge is justified and as long as its not taken over the score it can help you move on in life and put some of the past behind you.
I agree that what she did was stupid. But being fearful for her job was not.Quote:
Originally Posted by JMS
As to your other statement, I do not think such a basic tenet of human existence (feeling angry) is harmful to us, or we would all have dropped dead by now.
Anger is like gasoline, in many ways. Used in a controlled way, it is a fantastic fuel that may power your engine in a helpful way. Used carelessly, it can destroy you. (pardon the quote, my sensei is always saying things like that, a tad cheesy, but usually gets the point across)
We are dropping like flies! Stress is way up there for causing many of our health maladies! If one could handle stress without frustration, resentment and anger stress could not have the health affects that it does on us. So while I agree that you can use anger to your benefit, in the long run it will do you in !~ It's kind of like eating your body a piece at a time as it initially sates your hunger , but...you get the picture! There has got to be a better motivator than anger!Quote:
Originally Posted by jockeys
How many of you shave with a straight razor while angry...It doesn't work well, does it?
I'm more worried about what beer and barbeque are doing to my body than I am stress.Quote:
Originally Posted by JMS
But, agree to disagree.
I agree Mark. Whilst we may not have complete control over what makes us angry (although that's arguable), we certainly can (and do) have control over what we do with it.
Anger as a motivator? Sure. But I've found, for me, a calm consideration of all the implications and repercussions of my actions is by far the most productive approach to pretty much anything. So nowadays I always wait until the anger has subsided before doing anything, generally.
And, on a personal note, I've seen first-hand what unresolved and uncontrolled anger can do to a person over the course of their life. Not something to aspire to, let me assure you.
James.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruno
The other side of the coin is that when dealing with peons Such as the morons at customer service counters demonstrating a little anger with the raising of the voice and a few invecitives often gets you what you want or pushed up the ladder to someone who can give you what you want rather than lied to and shown the door.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jockeys
I think if you are in sink with things and stress/anxiety/anger are not an issue, then you will tend to steer towards healthy foods and lifestyle. Also, (this is me just talking out of my a$$), but I think even unhealthy foods are processed/digested better with the absence of stress. Stress is some bad stuff -- up there with best of them. It seems to me that everyone is trying to live these sterilized lives --- dieting, being scared about every possible new disease or catastrophy ----- without thinking about all the stress that this causes. It seems we are wired to information --- too much information , so much stuff without substance -------all in good measure is the key.
Justin
Anger gets nothing accomplished, however in the story if the lady had been seeing straight she would have used an old saying "Revenge is a Dish Best Served Cold" she should have waited until she was fired then not reset the timer on the virus that would have wiped the computers clean 2 weeks later...
I totally believe in the statement "Don't get angry, get even, or even one up" :)
Quote:
Originally Posted by jockeys
I understand, I've been through layoffs. However, just to see an ad in the paper for a similar position doesn't really mean much. It is very irrational to go wipe out YEARS of work because you're pissed about something that may not even be. C'mon, it turned out that the guy was interviewing someone for a different company. The rational thing to do would be to shop around for another job like you said. Now she has no job and possibly jail. Even worse, who's going to hire her now?
Ah, I like that! I'm a teacher, and I do get angry in the classroom sometimes, but I find that anger is more of a hindrance than anything else in that setting. A teacher has to keep cool at all times, period.Quote:
Originally Posted by JMS
Norm
If you want to see how how powerful and damaging anger can be, just watch how a little kid/child reacts in its presence, ---- it is an emotion that needs to be used wisely.
But I still do think it has its place,
Justin
What the woman did was a criminal act plain and simple and I think it just shows the type of person she is. If a jail guard is being fired does he open the doors and let everyone out? If an airtraffic contoller is being fired does he run two aircraft into each other? Does a police officer shoot someone he stops for a ticket?
Mentally unbalanced people do these types of things. They are out of the norm in a given situation. You can be unhappy and fustrated but most people act within certain norms. This woman didn't.
There was just a study released that they were talking about on the news last night... it said that couples who argue with each other, living longer... although I am not sure they want to.
Apparently the couples who held it in died faster and if only one of the spouses held it in, they were also supposed to die faster...
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaegerhund
Wow I thought it was just a misunderstanding that got out of control. I got a bit confused also by the bottling up comment too, because they way I read it (we all interpret things differently) was that she saw the add and did the damage all in the same day, if not immediately. But again I may have skipped over something.Quote:
Originally Posted by JMS
My views on anger it can be a powerful motivator, if you are strong enough to use it that way. I used anger to survive my teenage years and to accomplish my goals and dreams in life. I've got it all out my system now but some I carried for what seems like eternity.
I see what you are saying and maybe I didn't read it close enough ----but I do figure some anger is involved, whether she had been bottling it up for a while I don't know.Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD_SCHOOL
By the way Mark this thread fits in well with the Forgiving and Forgetting thread that I started a while back.
Justin
OLD SCHOOL, to my way of thinking, for someone to go off as she did she would have had to have been bottling up her anger over days, months, or years. The want ad was the tipping point! The anger could have been over being jilted by her lover, or someone next door continually playing their music too loud, and so instead of dealing with these problems, she shoves what was initially just an annoyance ( in the case of the music ) down, over and over until it becomes a torrent of rage that she can barely contain. Now, in comes the want ad...Kaboom!!Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD_SCHOOL
It is my contention that at least 85% of the people under Psychiatric care would not need this care and, in fact many of our institutions would either be made unnecessary or could scale down considerably if we could learn to deal with stress properly, that is to say with poise and without anger or resentment!Quote:
Originally Posted by thebigspendur
I have noticed that many who have replied to this thread have said that they use anger to their advantage, which means that you require motivation from outside yourself! If this is so, then I wonder who or what is using you and your anger to their advantage? On the other hand if you are moved from within no one can control you, but you will be in perfect control!
And of course she went about it the wrong way.
a) it was traceable.
b) it was not effective.
If you don't care about (a) then at least be effective. Of course, being a secretary she would not have had access to the physical disks or the tapeloader or the backup tapes in the safe or the offsite backup tapes.
The only way to be both untraceable and effective is if you are a sysadmin.
And even then, that fact by itself is going to make you suspect.
The story never said she was a secretary, in fact, it said that besides the boss, she was the only other person to have full access to all the companies files. Which tells me that she was highly trusted!Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruno
This is true ---- I think if you're feeling angry, then you are not in control and haven't handled things properly, and anger is a last resort, I've f#$ked up, now what thing. It is definitely not the healthiest motivator or a sign of strength, but, moreover, serves the same purpose as a trapped animal chewing off his leg to survive, ------ not ideal, not healthy, but useful in the extreme.Quote:
Originally Posted by JMS
Justin
Sorry I must have misread. I thought she was.Quote:
Originally Posted by JMS
Either they are a very small outfit without a sysadmin (which would explain the lack of backup data, or they were a larger outfit and forgot to mention the sysadmin (because people usually forget we exist).
Or she did all those things I said and they weren't mentioned, but I doubt that. It would have made the story juicier so it's not likely that a reporter would fail to mention those things.
Jeez! Thank goodness I'm not married to her!
How ya figure? I would say that being motivated by your anger is a very good example of intrinsic motivation. I mean, it's YOUR anger, right? How is that someone else motivating you?Quote:
Originally Posted by JMS
The way I see it (and here my philosophicial/ religious views begin to bleed through, sorry) everyone feels anger at some point. You can't get away from this. If you say you are NEVER angry, you are prolly lying to yourself on some level. There is nothing inherently wrong with being angry. Dealing with anger improperly, yes, that is bad. Letting it control you, also bad. But there are healthy ways to both dissipate and utilize anger.
Example one: (dissipating anger) I have a fight with my wife, and am furious with her. (you married guys will know that this is more of a "when" question than an "if" question:tu) I can let the anger rule me, and yell at her/hit her/sleep with one of her friends. I'd call that a bad thing. Or, I can safely dissipate that anger by hitting a punching bag for half an hour, going jogging, doing situps, etc. I get calm, and I get a workout. Problem solved.
Example two: (using anger) Let us suppose that I am fairing badly in some endeavor. Doesn't matter what, really, but for the sake of discussion let's say I'm trying to finish a project at work. Now, it is late at night (I'm a programmer) and no one else is there. It is easy to lose focus when you are rem-deprived. I can drink a bunch of coffee to stay awake, and usually make myself even more tired and sick, OR I can say to myself, "man, this sucks, it pisses me off that I have to stay up here all night and get this done" and get angry, which will wake me up just as well as coffee, but won't give me a headache or make my stomach hurt. And I can keep drinking glasses of anger, so to speak, all night long as I use that emotion to focus all my drive on getting the code written/fixed/whatever.
That really such a bad thing? In both cases, no one gets hurt, and in both cases, I gain from the situation by using anger.
You never need physical access to the tape/disk drives.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruno
All you really need to do is code some malware that looks likes its operating normaly but is infact saving all the data erroneously over a period of months, not big errors either just small enough to get past the net.
This is even more straightforward if the company uses open source software rather than propriitary (which is often the case with smaller firms reluctant to pay out several thousand for license fees) because you can therefore modify an entire application to seem like its doing its job yet it mysticaly causes errors.
The best part is you can actualy embed backdoors into the programs to gain remote access, to do as you please outside company time, transferring potentialy large sizes of money to several accounts and bouncing those accounts around for a few months to make tracing the money almost impossable.
In terms of an architectural firm you could just modify the code to plot things incorrectly in the tolerance if a couple of inches, view and print them correctly for a few months till you push the end game button and see all hell breaking loose as no applications display your drawings correctly. This would then set back project managers and construction firms involved and put the target firm completely out of reputable business.
No one wants a house that has windows and doors that refused to fit, especialy if these doors and windows (as is usualy the case) are custom built from custom alloys and shipped from Norway.
As for backups, once your code is up and running then its just a matter of a few weeks before the incremental backups begin to become altered, after at least a month the backups will have revolved full cycle and all of them will be irreprably dammaged causing potentialy fatal losses in company revinue and more importantly reputation.
By the time this is all kicking off you should have bankrolled your own firm and be ready to swoop in and save the day by picking off all the target firms clients.
"I worked for that firm for a number of years and told them time and time again that their software was not up to the job, all fallen on deaf ears because they where too cheap to pay for a time tested soloution." would certainly appeal to a project manager whos costs are spiraling and whos client is getting more and more disgruntled.
Then again trying to code anything when all you can think of is blowing up the world is no small feat, this is primarily the scenario under which "Windows ME" was developed.
You are right, but in big firms like you mention, everything important has an audit trail hanging to it which would very quickly finger you as the culprit.
For small outfits it would be possible.
I thought of data poisoning, but that only works over the course of months, not one or 2 days.
Short term the only way is to erase and then physically destroy the disks and any other backup media.
So, Chroma, now we really know how the site crashed and who's responsible...don't we;)
It may be your anger but someone or something else is prodding it! have you never watched children poke and tease at someone who is angry! They delight in it because they have the control not the angry person! also I wonder, did your Sensei ever teach you to use the anger, fear,and other emotions of your opponents against them? Many women do this all the time to get their own way! They get you so angry that when you finally cool down you feel guilty and become putty in their hands. some businesses use this technique also!Quote:
Originally Posted by jockeys
Yes, many people say they are not angry when in fact they are and can't even admit it to themselves which allows them to be used much easier than the man who can admit his anger! We all get angry to one degree or another and one must recognize this before they can begin the slow process of untangling themselves and separating themselves from anger! Those who have managed this will not be reading this post as they will probably be walking on water somewhere!;)
I think dissipating anger is a wise course of action but it still leaves the main cause of the anger largely undealt with.
If you have to get angry to accomplish your work you might want to consider another line of work!
Come on Brother Brendon, reply! you too Matt Hailey!
Come one, come all! Let us hear what you think!