Thread: The laws of men

If I hurt someone because I'm speeding, it's because of negligence on my part. Does it magically make it ok if I'm doing the speed limit? No, if I crash into someone, it's my fault no matter the speed. The immoral part of it would be driving beyond my abilities. If I couldn't safely conduct myself at that speed yet did so anyway, that's my fault. As such, I feel no shame in driving at least 80 MPH or above when driving on the interstate

Originally Posted by Quick Orange

If I hurt someone because I'm speeding, it's because of negligence on my part. Does it magically make it ok if I'm doing the speed limit? No, if I crash into someone, it's my fault no matter the speed. The immoral part of it would be driving beyond my abilities. If I couldn't safely conduct myself at that speed yet did so anyway, that's my fault. As such, I feel no shame in driving at least 80 MPH or above when driving on the interstate

My take is that the law is there to protect those without your ability.
ie: other driver does something stupid, you hit him through no fault of your own, your speeding he dies, your not speeding he lives.
I know its a very simplistic example but I'm sure you'll get my point.


As for the rest of this tread, I'd love to sit down for a few pints lads, but I can't be arsed typing all I have to say.

I was thinking this thread was going to be about which urinal to use in a line of 5 with 1 guy at station #2, then I realized that those are "Man Rules".
-Fred

Originally Posted by cudahogs

I was thinking this thread was going to be about which urinal to use in a line of 5 with 1 guy at station #2, then I realized that those are "Man Rules".
-Fred

4 or 5, depending on the setup of the room.
Definitely not 1 or 3 because that is just plain wrong unless 4 or 5 is already taken.

Originally Posted by Bruno

4 or 5, depending on the setup of the room.
Definitely not 1 or 3 because that is just plain wrong unless 4 or 5 is already taken.

I say #4 because it says you're secure enough in your masculinity to not be as far away as possible yet not close enough for the gentlemen in #2 to do a "gaze over"!
-Fred

"Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's; and unto God the things that are God's."

God's Laws and Man's Laws are not always the same. I do not know anything indicating that God will be judging you based on the Colorado Criminal Code, for example. Many of Man's Laws are the same, but others are in place to regulate society.

I doubt not paying your taxes on time will keep you out of paradise........

.......but keep all your receipts, just in case.

Like Bob Dylan said, "If you live outside the law, you must be honest." It's quite allright for you to disobey the laws of man, but don't pretend that you won't have to pay the consequences. If you want to kill the man who raped and killed your daughter then you have to be willing to go to jail for first degree murder (I think I would be willing to if I had no doubt as to the culprits identity). If you think you should get a pass because you think the laws of man are unjust, then you have another think coming. You will have to "give unto Ceaser" as someone else here so wisely said. Epictitus, the stoic, had a lot to say about this. You'd find his writings very interesting and I recommend looking him up sometime.

It's a question of how strong your beliefs really are. Are you willing to pay the price for those beliefs? If not, then you have to ask yourself what you DO believe in.

Secondly, I would take issue with the assertion that morality is derived from religious faith. Nothing could be further from the truth. Do you really think that the Israelites thought that lying, stealing, and murder were OK before Moses came down from the mountain with the tablets? Of course not, no society can exist and prosper without it's members being fair, kind, and honest. You don't have to look too hard to find examples of people using religion as an rationale for doing some very horrible things, and I could point you to a lot of atheists who are very moral and upright people.

Originally Posted by joesixpack

You don't have to look too hard to find examples of people using religion as an rationale for doing some very horrible things, and I could point you to a lot of atheists who are very moral and upright people.

True, but let's be fair here. It's very likely that those atheists derived (at some point be it 200 years ago or more) those morals from religions. (I'm not saying that's the case...just saying that the example doesn't quite fit)

And vice versa for evil religionists.


There are some morals however that are VERY religious in base:

"Don't have sex with someone if you're married to someone else" for instance. However the person that lives this principle views his/her existance now. It's a moral that originally came from a religious context.

Originally Posted by joesixpack

Like Bob Dylan said, "If you live outside the law, you must be honest." It's quite allright for you to disobey the laws of man, but don't pretend that you won't have to pay the consequences. If you want to kill the man who raped and killed your daughter then you have to be willing to go to jail for first degree murder (I think I would be willing to if I had no doubt as to the culprits identity). If you think you should get a pass because you think the laws of man are unjust, then you have another think coming. You will have to "give unto Ceaser" as someone else here so wisely said. Epictitus, the stoic, had a lot to say about this. You'd find his writings very interesting and I recommend looking him up sometime.

It's a question of how strong your beliefs really are. Are you willing to pay the price for those beliefs? If not, then you have to ask yourself what you DO believe in.

Secondly, I would take issue with the assertion that morality is derived from religious faith. Nothing could be further from the truth. Do you really think that the Israelites thought that lying, stealing, and murder were OK before Moses came down from the mountain with the tablets? Of course not, no society can exist and prosper without it's members being fair, kind, and honest. You don't have to look too hard to find examples of people using religion as an rationale for doing some very horrible things, and I could point you to a lot of atheists who are very moral and upright people.

I have never known anyone else who had read Epictitus!
Glad to meet you!!

Originally Posted by cudahogs

I was thinking this thread was going to be about which urinal to use in a line of 5 with 1 guy at station #2, then I realized that those are "Man Rules".
-Fred

#4 obviously. Using #'s 2 and 3 aren't acceptable, and 5 just makes you look crazy.

Heli, I get your point, but I'd still have to say that was my fault and I was driving beyond my ability. It's the difference between being a defensive driver (waiting for things to happen) and offensive driver (making sure they don't happen). I know I'll get some cracks about the offensive part, but whatever.

For instance, about a year ago I wasn't paying as much attention as usual and could've hit a motorcyclist. I was well within the law, not speeding, etc. However, I morally felt like shit for a day because I wasn't as vigilant and driving (at the time) beyond my ability. It had nothing to do with me going the speed limit, but had everything to do with me. Would it have been ok had I hit him, even though I was within the law? Nope.