Thread: Progress in Iraq - Oh no!

Originally Posted by Nickelking

Thing is right now so much of what we're doing is keeping peace between the shiites ant the sunni, a large pert of the patreaus plan is to seal off a neighborhood once it's been decided to be one sect. We may be able to achieve stability while we're there, but once we leave... On top of that a long term presence in a muslim country as opposed to korea or germany would undercut the true spirit of the people and what they stand for. We're damned if we do and damned if we don't.

Agreed on this. It reminds me of so much of what happened in eastern Europe after WWII. In Yugoslavia, for example, Tito basically laid a heavy hand on a whole bunch of sectarian strife and kept a lid on it for 50 years. Exit Tito, and sooner or later, what happens? Same in the various SSRs, like in Chechnya; same all over.

So what happens when the US leaves? Can you say Kosovo?

How (and why) did we ever get into this?

j

Originally Posted by Nord Jim

How (and why) did we ever get into this?

j

Well... About 8 years ago you had the general elections...

Originally Posted by Bruno

Well... About 8 years ago you had the general elections...

Thanks Bruno - I was going going to say that the Congress, the President, and the US citizenship agreed to it by a majority.

Originally Posted by hoglahoo

Thanks Bruno - I was going going to say that the Congress, the President, and the US citizenship agreed to it by a majority.

Actually, it was the Supreme Court, 5-4.

j

Originally Posted by Nord Jim

Actually, it was the Supreme Court, 5-4.

j

The people wanted it, the President wanted it, and the Congress wanted it
The Supreme Court doesn't send soldiers to war

Originally Posted by hoglahoo

The people wanted it, the President wanted it, and the Congress wanted it
The Supreme Court doesn't send soldiers to war

The Supreme Court overturned Florida law to give us a president who would make his case for war with cooked information. The saddest part was watching Colin Powell, whom I've always admired, dishonor himself in the process.

It's pretty debatable whether "the People" wanted it. There were hundreds of thousands of people in the streets marching against the idea in the days leading up to the invasion, if you'll remember. Polls were pretty mixed.

Congress, being composed of politicians (i.e., moral cowards), was scared into it. It simply wasn't PC to oppose the war. I lived in Minnesota at the time, and all three of my representatives to Congress voted against it, so I don't particularly feel responsible for this mess.

All in all, not a red-letter day in U.S. history.

Originally Posted by Nord Jim

The Supreme Court overturned Florida law to give us a president who would make his case for war with cooked information. The saddest part was watching Colin Powell, whom I've always admired, dishonor himself in the process.

Ah, so that's how the Supreme Court sent the US to war. Incredible!

Originally Posted by Nord Jim

It's pretty debatable whether "the People" wanted it. There were hundreds of thousands of people in the streets marching against the idea in the days leading up to the invasion, if you'll remember. Polls were pretty mixed.

No they weren't. Here is a sample of some Gallup polls from '03 http://gallup.com/search/default.asp...ate&i=&t=&p=34

Wikipedia may not have any facts straight, but it does sum up the people's opinion quite well: "The American public’s opinion of the invasion of Iraq has changed significantly since the years preceding the incursion. For various reasons, mostly related to the unexpected consequences of the invasion, the U.S. public’s perspective on its government’s choice to initiate an offensive is increasingly negative. A USA Today/Gallup Poll indicated that 75% of Americans felt the U.S. did not make a mistake in sending troops to Iraq in March 2003. However, according to the same poll retaken in April 2007, 58% of the participants stated that the initial attack was a mistake. In May, 2007, the New York Times and CBS News released similar results of a poll in which 61% of participants believed the U.S. "should have stayed out" of Iraq."

Originally Posted by Nord Jim

Congress, being composed of politicians (i.e., moral cowards), was scared into it. It simply wasn't PC to oppose the war. I lived in Minnesota at the time, and all three of my representatives to Congress voted against it, so I don't particularly feel responsible for this mess.

Regardless of the Congress' immorality or cowardice, you have to admit that they did indeed send the US on its way to war. I'm curious though which politicians specifically were actually scared into opposing the war. I want names!

Originally Posted by Nord Jim

All in all, not a red-letter day in U.S. history.

Time will tell