Thread: The Conversation ?????

In complete agreement with Glen. Open conversations should be open. Maybe add a disclaimer that this section of the forum might have dissenting opinions. Individual interpretation of what constitutes an insult or provocation, for example, will get you 12 different opinions if you ask 6 different people...

I'm a big boy now and do not need or desire any third parties to protect me from anyone's opinions, statements, or anything else they can type into a post. If the post is supposed to be in a "free speech" area than that's what it should be. As long as the post isn't actually against the law.

Originally Posted by Sticky

As long as the post isn't actually against the law.

And how would posts that are 'against the law' be dealt with? Deleted? Ignored? If so, who would do this deleting? Do you see this problem now?

Perhaps we could call these people who delete spam and illegal posts 'mo-duh-ray-tors'

Frankly, the "Off Topic" threads are one of the few reasons that I visit this site, still. Don't get me wrong, I still like the on-topic discussion, but I don't have a serious RAD condition and I only occasionally seek advice about razor care.

I think that the rules here are very simple to follow and no one's speech here has been seriously curtailed because of them. I think if you're old enough to shave, you're old enough to man-up and disagree in a respectful and polite manner. Throwing vulgar insults at someone who holds a differing opinion than you is just childish. Remember that people aren't going to change their mind on whatever issue it is by you flaming or insulting them. Have you ever changed your position because someone yelled at you?

I've said this before, and it bears repeating, there are people in my life (family and friends) who I both love and respect that I disagree with strongly on various topics. It does not change how I feel about them. They are still very good people under their opinions (no matter how wrong they are). The members of this forum are real people. They're also your friends. You should be albel to treat them as such.

Originally Posted by sidneykidney

... And how would posts that are 'against the law' be dealt with? Deleted? Ignored? If so, who would do this deleting? Do you see this problem now?

Deal with legal problems legally; due process. I don't see a real problem.

Originally Posted by Sticky

Deal with legal problems legally; due process. I don't see a real problem.

My point is who would be responsible for monitoring for legality issues? The moderators do. There is no problem because they ARE here and they do the job they do. If they werent here then how would you deal with a legality issue?

This thread is getting silly. Unsubscribed.

Originally Posted by sidneykidney

My point is who would be responsible for monitoring for legality issues? The moderators do. There is no problem because they ARE here and they do the job they do. If they werent here then how would you deal with a legality issue?

This thread is getting silly. Unsubscribed.

Lol... I was being ironic.

My real point is that any standard of "insulting" or "provocation" is going to be highly subjective and the standard will change depending on each individual... very hard, virtually impossible, to be consistent. Hence: why bother to try enforcing a standard which really doesn't have a definable standard at all?

I just hope my posts aren't silly or provocative enough to make people stop subscribing to the "The Conversation" thread. (more irony...couldn't resist)

(By "against the law" I mean against an honest to goodness state or federal statute type of law, as opposed to a forum rule)

I feel like I should chime in, as I do that a lot in this area of the forum.

I don't really discuss politics or religion on other forums, and rarely with some friends. But I do here. The fact that we've taken up straight razor shaving shows that we're open minded people (in my opinion) and the users of this forum are all quite genteel.

As an example, JMS and I regularly disagree in threads here. But I know for a fact that in the next so cal meetup I'll have no qualms shaking his hand and hanging out with him. And I'm sure he'll be bringing along some of his unprocessed cheese to share despite it all (gasp! unprocessed?)

I guess what I'm saying is that we disagree, straight shaving takes all kinds of people, we're not going to agree on everything. But we're a rare breed. Heck, we even added a DE forum, if that doesn't show that we accept others as part of our community faults and all nothing does. Granted sometimes things do get heated and bad things are said, it usually doesn't take too long before there's an apology though.

I like the fact that I can talk about these sensetive topics here and know that no matter what, at the end of the day, we respect each other as people and for being dedicated to their opinion; no matter what it may be.

(just my opinion, but I thought I had to share.)

The mettle of a man does not show through what he believes, but rather how he handles what he and others believe. Character makes itself known through adversity! If we truly care to know who we are calling friends on this forum we can not just verbally pat each other on the back and talk about how great we are because we use straight razors, can we? no! If we care at all to know who our fellow man is as opposed to keeping our feelings at ease, then I say that "The Conversation" section must remain, and with as little ( And I mean practically none ) censorship as possible!

Originally Posted by Brother Jeeter

I respectfully disagree with the prospect of closing down "The Conversation." I read many Forums on the SRP, however I rarely post in any but The Conversation. It would effectively silence me and I suspect many others.
I don't have much to add to the other Forums or the Threads they contain. Someone with as much to say, has usually said it. I find absolutely no reason to beat a dead horse, so I just read and move on to the next Topic. I didn't need to register to only read the words posted here.

Originally Posted by joesixpack

Frankly, the "Off Topic" threads are one of the few reasons that I visit this site, still. Don't get me wrong, I still like the on-topic discussion, but I don't have a serious RAD condition and I only occasionally seek advice about razor care.

I think that the rules here are very simple to follow and no one's speech here has been seriously curtailed because of them. I think if you're old enough to shave, you're old enough to man-up and disagree in a respectful and polite manner. Throwing vulgar insults at someone who holds a differing opinion than you is just childish. Remember that people aren't going to change their mind on whatever issue it is by you flaming or insulting them. Have you ever changed your position because someone yelled at you?

I've said this before, and it bears repeating, there are people in my life (family and friends) who I both love and respect that I disagree with strongly on various topics. It does not change how I feel about them. They are still very good people under their opinions (no matter how wrong they are). The members of this forum are real people. They're also your friends. You should be albel to treat them as such.

These posts are exactly my feelings on the matter, especially Brother Jeeter's.

I'm glad to hear there are members here that feel connected to "The Conversation" forum; that has been very enlightening for me.

It is hard to define how we behave in here and I should point out that (going back to the original post) we have lost more members and more valuable members from the insults thrown in this forum rather than from those posts either being edited or a moderator asking for an edit. It is a kind of tight rope to try and walk. We often ask guys to cool it a little, or edit a post, we do not ask anyone to stop posting, if they fail to cooperate we sometimes are forced to ban them.

In most of the other forums we disagree with a razor choice, honing technique, or brush size and very few people get riled up about it. In here we often disagree with a religion, a lifestyle, a personal concern, political view, etc.; things many of us hold dear to the view we have of ourselves.

The guideline I use, the tight-rope if you will, is civility. I say tight-rope because there is a very strong anti-censorship wave around here. Civility is the key for me though, not individual insult. I think you'll see that word a lot around here.

Two members attacking each other is something we try to work, but nine times out of ten the two will eventually come to either an agreement or a disagreement and be done with it. Sometimes they'll even start speaking to each other again. Sometimes what is left gets cleaned up for the benefit of future members, so in the end it looks like we are one happy family, even if we've had some big fights in the past. And believe me, we have.

But, civility doesn't just end there for the future potential members. Civility also includes a few other rather personal issues. Racism for example, is an area where posts may not be attacking a specific person but rather a group of people. It is a form of being uncivil. Even if we are all "white" males today, we can not assume that potential future members will be. We have groupings of people here that we have attacked to include; "Americans", "Europeans", every ethnicity, DE users, females, members of other forums, etc.,(the list is embarrasingly long); even though we have all those members represented here within our membership who read these posts. I assume very few of them feel uncomfortable posting. And that is, in many cases, a direct result of Moderation.

So regardless of whether you personally feel comfortable posting whatever you want, that doesn't always cut the muster for the way things should be. And just because you look at a post today and say to yourself, "I don't think there is a damn thing wrong or insulting with that post", doesn't mean that the post your looking at is the original version.

But from my perspective it often just looks like an adult version of "If I can't have my way I'm taking my ball home and you can't play anymore". And whether your "ball" is a strop, or a brush, or a custom razor; you can take it home and not converse anytime you want, because in here, every member is as valuable as the next. No one member has more value because they do something else beyond the discussion. We are all held to the same rules, even when we think we are the most important person in the straight razor world.