Thread: Are you prepared?

Yup, we were trained and being fifty miles from NYC we knew we'd be safe hiding under the desks even as the telephones on our walls melted.

Originally Posted by Pudu

A national missile defense system is astronomically expensive and proven to be almost completely ineffective at doing what it is designed to do. Couple that with the fact that attacks on mainland USA would most certainly not come in the form of an ICBM, there is zero value derived from the billions upon billions of dollars it requires.

Interesting POV. I do not believe the currently suggested ABM shield has the U.S. in mind so much as allies in Europe, with the leaders of certain countries vowing the total destruction of other countries and now seemingly racing towards the ability to do just that. As far as how successful the interceptors are or might be when the proper antennae arrays are in place, it is very unlikely we will know this. Even "failed" tests in the public eye for such things are suspect at best. No nation likes to lay out all of its cards.

Originally Posted by Pudu

From a defense perspective it is far far far better to spend that money on intelligence gathering. These days intelligence is gathered in the form of signals intelligence and human intelligence. Human intelligence is bought outright. And it is the best chance at foiling any future attacks. How many Americans could be taught fluent Arabic for a billion dollars?

I agree with the first part. HUMINT is less "glamorous" but it fills in the very very important details. Satellites may tell one what a group may have in its back yard, but not what they intend to use it for. HUMINT does. SIGINT unfortunately (IMHO) has become so politically charged that for America, anyway, it is less and less feasible. No sooner than Special Operators start intercepting the cell phone calls of a known terrorist in, say, Afghanistan, or perhaps Iraq, etc. teams of people in the U.S. worry that the terrorists' civil rights have been violated. Or that perhaps he was calling someone in the U.S. and their civil rights have been violated. So we have lost that capability, although other countries have not. Strange those same people wonder to themselves why "so and so" has not been caught...

Originally Posted by Pudu

Foreign aid involves a great deal more than handing sums of money to people with funny accents. If you know nothing about a country, can't speak the language and have made no efforts to foster good will, intelligence becomes a great deal harder to collect and much more expensive. China is dumping millions and millions of dollars into Africa, I wonder how their intelligence services are doing. No strings attached foreign aid doesn't really exist.

Agree completely.

Originally Posted by Pudu

Like it or not we live in a global community. Big walls, in the form of bricks and barbed wire or interceptor missiles are not up to the job anymore.

Today they are a deterrent at best in most cases perhaps, but ultimately, if they deter an attacker, they have done their job. Things have gone horribly wrong indeed if interceptors truly need to be used against active nuclear weapons. Do they work? Yes, I believe they do. Would they stop an onslaught of missiles from say, Russia or China? I doubt it, but to be honest, Russia and China aren't the prime consideration for these things at this point, IMHO.

As I live less than 20 miles from one of the largest Naval bases in the world, in a wooden house-I'm guessing I'm toast. Others, however, in more substantial buildings farther away?
They might have a chance.

Duck and Cover...

John P.

Ceaser himself didn't prepare very well. "Et tu Brute? Then die, Ceaser." Einstein on the other hand, said, "You can not work for peace and prepare for war." (And this, in the dawn of the Atomic Age.)

Originally Posted by Brother Jeeter

Nothing actually would be better, as we could put the money to better use elsewhere.

I'd rather have the money spent on better education for my kids than to fund companies making big bucks off of questionable technologies.

Seraphim


I respectfully disagree! Without a Defense System, we would have to spend even MORE money on Body Bags!
There are too many people in this world who wish to do us much evil. Human nature hasn't changed since the year 'Zero.' Of the first two natural born humans that we have record, one murdered the other.
Julius Ceasar once said, "If you desire peace, prepare for war!"
Without an effective defense, we could expect a 9-11 style attack on at least a weekly basis. Anyone who thinks otherwise, is...Naive.

Trained in tornado drills in Arkansas, but it was never mentioned as a nuke drill. I did hear the phrase disaster preparation, but to us a tornado fell into that category. Arkansas only really has one strategic target - a munitions stockpile in pine bluff, and that was far enough away to not really worry. That or they were good at hiding it. I'm staying out of the ongoing debate, but definitely check out the pic below(link)... I think it's appropriate here and that everyone will see the humor in it - be sure to read the description below the actual poster...


Propaganda


Adam

Einstein on the other hand, said, "You can not work for peace and prepare for war." (And this, in the dawn of the Atomic Age.)

leadduck


I submit that IF you are the best armed nation on Earth and EVERYONE knows you WILL use everything in your arsenal...no one is going to attack you. The condition of no aggression directed toward you, IS Peace.
And that is called "Peace Through Superior Firepower."

Originally Posted by Brother Jeeter

Einstein on the other hand, said, "You can not work for peace and prepare for war." (And this, in the dawn of the Atomic Age.)

leadduck


I submit that IF you are the best armed nation on Earth and EVERYONE knows you WILL use everything in your arsenal...no one is going to attack you. The condition of no aggression directed toward you, IS Peace.
And that is called "Peace Through Superior Firepower."

Will you be my Daddy?

Originally Posted by Brother Jeeter

I submit that IF you are the best armed nation on Earth and EVERYONE knows you WILL use everything in your arsenal...no one is going to attack you. The condition of no aggression directed toward you, IS Peace.
And that is called "Peace Through Superior Firepower."

There are two problems with that approach.

1- The threats today aren't coming from static nation states which could be targeted for reprisal attacks, but rather from a collection of amorphous groups of individuals who operate, for the most part, independently of borders and recognized governments.

2- Your original supposition has been proven not to work. Up to the end of the 19th century Britain's foreign policy was one of "splendid isolation". They had a navy that could take on the next two largest navies afloat. The theory was that Britain would be best served by staying out of continental politics altogether and simply reaping the windfalls of her huge empire. A newly formed German juggernaut soon wanted a piece of the action. The Admiralty, under Sir John Arbuthnot Fisher, decided to build Dreadnoughts to ensure the Pax Britannica. Twelve years later, Europeans spent four years trying their damned best to slaughter one another. There are currently a few juggernauts looking for a bigger piece of the world, or about to be looking. Telling them "mine is bigger than yours" won't do much to dissuade that interest.

- I realize that was a criminally paraphrased version of the first real arms race. For that I apologize.

Originally Posted by Pudu

- I realize that was a criminally paraphrased version of the first real arms race. For that I apologize.

You're forgiven my son. Go forth and sin no more.

Originally Posted by Quick Orange

You're forgiven my son. Go forth and sin no more.

Hallelujah, I am saved!

Though I fear it may not be for long. For I am weak that way. A predilection for paraphrase is a most terrible affliction.

Originally Posted by Bruno

I am a 31 year old European. I've never consciously lived in a time when Russian attack seemed likely. My generation hasn't had any training in 'what to do when $SUPERPOWER attacks.

+1 Except the fact I have a year or two on Bruno.