Thread: Are you prepared?

Originally Posted by Brother Jeeter

I will disagree 100% of the time, with anyone using MY money to try to buy friends!

The idea is not so much to buy friends, as to NOT being an international bully without regard for other countries, taking what it wants and caring nothing about the consequences for others.

groups like al-qaeda are not attacking you for your freedoms (such as you have left). Sure, that may be the banner slogan, but these groups are feeding on the hatred for the US, caused by 30 or 40 years of disrupting the middle east for your own benefit. As you reap, so shall you sow. The more the US behaves like a bully, the more it shall be hated, and the more it shall be hit with terrorist attacks.

Originally Posted by Bruno

groups like al-qaeda are not attacking you for your freedoms (such as you have left).

HA! it's funny because it's oh so sadly true. Right #4 I'll miss you... I hope you come back to visit!

Originally Posted by Bruno

The more the US behaves like a bully, the more it shall be hated, and the more it shall be hit with terrorist attacks.

I find your lack of faith... disturbing. Oh that thou shouldst wot that thou knowest all things, and shall wherewith be satisfied by the laud of thy peers. Yet I quath ye canst spake beyond thy certainty save the trust of thy audience, o Bruno.

Also, there have been more terrorist attacks over the past ten years in several other nations than in the much larger US. I don't know how many US-targeted attacks were thwarted though. I wish there was some kind of giant bully meter visible to all the nations of the world so that we could see who is going to hit with the next terrorist attack. Somehow I don't think it's that simple though. Every nation is hated by some other nation, but the organized crazy extreme nutcases are going to terrorize anyone who angers them. What exactly is the bullying that if stopped would satisfy the organized crazy extreme nutcases? And if that bullying stopped, do you think those nuts would suddenly have the capacity to peacefully integrate into the society around them and abandon their thirst for violence? Maybe it's true - oops, well my wife just asked me what I was doing, so I read her Bruno's post and she simply rolled her eyes and said, "why do you even read that" lol

Originally Posted by hoglahoo

I find your lack of faith... disturbing. Oh that thou shouldst wot that thou knowest all things, and shall wherewith be satisfied by the laud of thy peers. Yet I quath ye canst spake beyond thy certainty save the trust of thy audience, o Bruno.

I don't know everything. I do watch the news though, and read the newspaper, and use the internet.

Originally Posted by hoglahoo

Also, there have been more terrorist attacks over the past ten years in several other nations than in the much larger US. I don't know how many US-targeted attacks were thwarted though. I wish there was some kind of giant bully meter visible to all the nations of the world so that we could see who is going to hit with the next terrorist attack. Somehow I don't think it's that simple though. Every nation is hated by some other nation, but the organized crazy extreme nutcases are going to terrorize anyone who angers them. What exactly is the bullying that if stopped would satisfy the organized crazy extreme nutcases? And if that bullying stopped, do you think those nuts would suddenly have the capacity to peacefully integrate into the society around them and abandon their thirst for violence?

Well, the US brought Saddam to power, disrupting the country and installing a brutal dictator.
Then they toppled the government in Iran because it was too firendly to the communists.
Then they fueled both sides of a war between those countries.
Fastforward to 5 years ago: the Us starts a war in Iraq on false premises. There were no WMD, and Saddam had no ties with al qaeda.
1 year ago Bush denounces Iran, vowing to 'solve that problem' before he leaves office.

All these things are creating long term hatred.
So if a fundamentalist is recruiting terrorists, he has millions to pick from.
Iraq has no shortage of them, and there is an attack almost every day.
'Fighting them over there so you don't have to fight them at home' is a fallacy. The terrorists are attacking you because you are there.
The situation in Iraq is complex, and getting out of the country is not the best solution either. It will take time, thinking and diplomacy. I don't know the answers either.

But in the long term, minimizing interference and letting countries decide their own destiny, whether that is communism, religious fundamentalism or democracy is the only viable long term strategy.

Originally Posted by hoglahoo

Maybe it's true - oops, well my wife just asked me what I was doing, so I read her Bruno's post and she simply rolled her eyes and said, "why do you even read that" lol

I don't know what to make from this. Is she annoyed at political discussions in general, or at me because I think that the US is less than perfect, and not the paragon of all that is good and pure?

Bruno,

Generally correct, with revisions:

Originally Posted by Bruno

Well, the US brought Saddam to power, disrupting the country and installing a brutal dictator.
Then they toppled the government in Iran because it was too firendly to the communists.
Then they fueled both sides of a war between those countries.
Fastforward to 5 years ago: the Us starts a war in Iraq on false premises. There were no WMD, and Saddam had no ties with al qaeda.
1 year ago Bush denounces Iran, vowing to 'solve that problem' before he leaves office.

1. The U.S. toppled the popularly-elected Iranian government in 1953 because it wanted to nationalize its petroleum industry. They've never forgiven us. We didn't topple the Shah. He was our guy.

2. We supported Iraq against Iran because, well, we didn't like Iran. We used Saddam as a buffer against Islamic fundementalism.

3. Of the three nations that Bush called the "Axis of Evil," we invaded one and the other two are developing nuclear weapons as fast as they can.

j

...the more it shall be hit with terrorist attacks.

Isn't the US more hated now than it was 7 years ago? Where are the increased attacks according to the increased hatred? Can you really forecast the future? Difficult venture, but maybe you are right. You mentioned a list of perceived US transgressions, and among the things on that list that could be shared by other nations, the US is first and foremost. If that list is the reason the US has suffered half a dozen attacks over the past decade, why have other nations been attacked just as frequently? I doubt your reasoning on those lines

Doesn't the US throw its weight around the entire globe, and disrupt every nation it sets foot in? Your reasons don't explain why only a select few nutcase extremists from similar backgrounds (Middle Eastern religious extremist philosophies) are attacking different nations with similar frequency. Isn't the US meddling all over the globe? Where are the Hindu terrorist attacks, or the Canadian terrorists, or the English terrorists? How does your explanation of hatred for the US get confined to a select few Muslim nutcases? It doesn't add up

I'm not sure exactly what my wife was thinking, but I'm guessing she preferred I was helping with the laundry rather than engaging in political debate that doesn't produce a net benefit for us around the house

Originally Posted by Nord Jim

3. Of the three nations that Bush called the "Axis of Evil," we invaded one and the other two are developing nuclear weapons as fast as they can.

I hope the intelligence that tells us they are developing nuclear weapons is better than the intelligence which told us Iraq was doing so

Originally Posted by hoglahoo

...Doesn't the US throw its weight around the entire globe, and disrupt every nation it sets foot in? Your reasons don't explain why only a select few nutcase extremists from similar backgrounds (Middle Eastern religious extremist philosophies) are attacking different nations with similar frequency. Isn't the US meddling all over the globe? Where are the Hindu terrorist attacks, or the Canadian terrorists, or the English terrorists? How does your explanation of hatred for the US get confined to a select few Muslim nutcases? It doesn't add up...

If I yank on the tails of four cats and only one tries to scratch my eyes out as a result, should I conclude that this one attacked me because of something other than me yanking on his tail?

Originally Posted by hoglahoo

I hope the intelligence that tells us they are developing nuclear weapons is better than the intelligence which told us Iraq was doing so

Wouldn't break my heart if that intelligence was wrong, but I'm not betting on it.

j

Originally Posted by hoglahoo

Doesn't the US throw its weight around the entire globe, and disrupt every nation it sets foot in? Your reasons don't explain why only a select few nutcase extremists from similar backgrounds (Middle Eastern religious extremist philosophies) are attacking different nations with similar frequency. Isn't the US meddling all over the globe? Where are the Hindu terrorist attacks, or the Canadian terrorists, or the English terrorists? How does your explanation of hatred for the US get confined to a select few Muslim nutcases? It doesn't add up

I think it also has a lot to do with the mentality of the people who are affected.
Noone here in Belgium of my age thinks less of the Germans for what happened 60 years ago.
But the hatred between China and Japan is as hot now as it was right after the war.
Different people react differently.

Imo the biggest factor is that the terrorist leadership has found a very handy tool in the Quran. They have succeeded in using religion to base their movement.
Suicide is the ultimate crime in catholicism, and that is why e.g the IRA never posed the same problem in the UK. Furthermore, they -generally- targeted the government and not the people, and gave warnings in advance. They were catholic, they had their warped version of 'thou shalt not kill'

In contrast, the Islamic terrorist are allowed to 'kill the infidel' and get rewarded because of it, at least in their minds.

there are hundreds of things that determine why people react differently, and why some are on a crusade to destroy the US, and others are just angry in a harmless way.

Originally Posted by hoglahoo

I'm not sure exactly what my wife was thinking, but I'm guessing she preferred I was helping with the laundry rather than engaging in political debate that doesn't produce a net benefit for us around the house

You and me both. My wife says the same thing whenever she finds me talking or writing about politics. And she follows that up with 'go do something useful' and usually finishes the sentence by naming at least one things that I should be at that time.