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Thread: Taxes?

  1. #41
    JMS
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    Usagi Yojimbo JMS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chimensch View Post
    Theoretically, the government spends money on things that benefit everyone, for the common good.
    Quote Originally Posted by Chimensch View Post
    Ah, you're talking about how taxes are spent ... I thought the discussion was about how they should be collected.
    It seems that you were talking about how taxes are spent too!

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  3. #42
    Senior Member billyjeff2's Avatar
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    "So you'd rather have a tax on people for their hard work than for their toy purchases?"

    Well, that's part of my point. Those opposed to the inheritance tax favor taxing one's income earned through labor over taxing one's income earned through nothing other than being the offspring of the rich. That's why I'm not opposed to inheritance taxes as a part of the global tax-raising scheme. Why tax the wage earner but not the inheritor?
    But leaving that subject aside for the moment, on the question of whether it is a better tax system to tax wages versus a federal sales tax, again my concern is that if wages aren't taxed and only spending is, the very wealthy could end up paying very little taxes at all even though they are the largest wage earners, resulting in the tax burden falling more heavily on the middle and lower classes, who are the least able to afford paying taxes to begin with, and who fell the economic pinch of taxes far more acutely than the wealthy.
    Last edited by billyjeff2; 07-04-2008 at 11:26 PM. Reason: grammar

  4. #43
    The Hurdy Gurdy Man thebigspendur's Avatar
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    Any kind of system involving voluntary compliance will mean people will cheat and be dishonest. The best way is a federal tax on everything that way the more you buy the more you pay. No more cheating the tax collector. No more phony tax shelters or phony business claims and all the other rubbish that goes on now. It would also eliminate the IRS in one fell swoop.
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    Never a dull moment hoglahoo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by billyjeff2 View Post
    Why tax the wage earner but not the inheritor?
    That's unfair to the wage earner. Better to tax neither
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    The original Skolor and Gentileman. gugi's Avatar
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    Well, for the government to function it needs to either collect money from the citizens, or/and pillage foreign countries. The way I see it is that no matter what tax code system you have if it's left long enough in place the economy will readjust itself to match it.
    I find the viewpoint "it's my money, keep your hand out of it" rather silly. I would speculate the government will stop collecting taxes at all and collect revenue by some other means some salaries will increase, others will decrease, and the net result may be pretty much the same. Or if it's not the same, after the readjustment you really have no idea whether you'll come ahead or not.
    Under this hypothesis, certainly no reason not to choose the simplest solution. The only problem is transitions can be much worse than the initial or the final state...

  7. #46
    Never a dull moment hoglahoo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gugi View Post
    I find the viewpoint "it's my money, keep your hand out of it" rather silly.
    Well then send it to me, I'll govern your life for you if it makes you feel better
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  8. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by thebigspendur View Post
    Any kind of system involving voluntary compliance will mean people will cheat and be dishonest. The best way is a federal tax on everything that way the more you buy the more you pay. No more cheating the tax collector. No more phony tax shelters or phony business claims and all the other rubbish that goes on now. It would also eliminate the IRS in one fell swoop.
    You will still need someone to check that merchants are collecting and paying the tax. Unless, you have auditors visiting stores on a regular basis, you still have a voluntary system, so you haven't eliminated anything.

  9. #48
    Senior Member ProfessorChaos!'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Navaja View Post
    Neither flat nor sales tax will be the same for everyone.
    There're many people that don't report they income, those will continue paying no tax on that income.
    Once the best solution is found, the harder problem will be enforcement
    Not exactly...

    One of the benefits of a flat, national sales tax is that instead of taxing income, comsumption is taxed. In such a system, no one reports income because it is no longer taxed. Instead all purchases are taxed at the point of sale. Thus anyone making purchases - including drug dealers buying Escalades - will pay tax. The sole way to avoid paying tax is to not purchase anything.

    Some additional benefits of a national sales tax include that by removing the disincentives to produce, our economy would go into overdrive. It also would tax everyone equally. Which is why we will never see it happen. There are many in Congress and elsewhere who believe that taxation is not merely a source of revenue but also the first step of social engineering. Until these socialists - in fact if not name - understand the burdens of their failed policies, we are stuck with this system. Frankly, I don't think they want to see America excel and wealth redistribution is one way to put the brakes on.

  10. #49
    Senior Member ProfessorChaos!'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by billyjeff2 View Post
    Why tax the wage earner but not the inheritor?
    Because that money has already been taxed once: when it was earned.

  11. #50
    French Toast Please! sicboater's Avatar
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    Early on in this thread, Jockeys made a point about the national sales tax being harder to implement than the flat tax. This is the only thing that bothers me about it. I could also see the retirement issue, (folks who have already paid taxes on their retirement savings all of a sudden getting taxed on their consumption and needing additional rebates, headache). But the implementation thing makes me think that we would wake up one day and the Government would say something like: "Well, we are going to do the national sales tax, and the income tax this year and we will gradually fade out the income tax..." Frankly, I don't trust them to stop any form of taxation that is already established if they start a new one at the same time. And yes, I vote in all the elections in which I am able.

    Quote Originally Posted by ProfessorChaos! View Post
    Not exactly...

    One of the benefits of a flat, national sales tax is that instead of taxing income, comsumption is taxed. In such a system, no one reports income because it is no longer taxed. Instead all purchases are taxed at the point of sale. Thus anyone making purchases - including drug dealers buying Escalades - will pay tax. The sole way to avoid paying tax is to not purchase anything.

    Some additional benefits of a national sales tax include that by removing the disincentives to produce, our economy would go into overdrive. It also would tax everyone equally. Which is why we will never see it happen. There are many in Congress and elsewhere who believe that taxation is not merely a source of revenue but also the first step of social engineering. Until these socialists - in fact if not name - understand the burdens of their failed policies, we are stuck with this system. Frankly, I don't think they want to see America excel and wealth redistribution is one way to put the brakes on.

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