Thread: Every immigrant who comes here should be required within five years to learn English

Originally Posted by gugi

So, yes, the illegal aliens are criminals, the people who employ them are criminals as well, but what are the political leaders who have failed to protect the US border? What about the voters who elect them? If memory serves there was at least one presidential candidate who wanted to secure the US border - he didn't seem to enjoy all that much support. The same is true even on a smaller scale of local governments.

Here is what I believe to be a big part of the problem. It isn't about the borders so much as there is so much political support behind those wishing to come here illegally that now rather than enforce the laws politicians would rather have authorities "catch and release" felons and others here illegally, rather than have groups such as La Rasa call them "racists". Personally, I see no racism in applying the laws equally to those from all nations. I know legal immigrants from many countries, yes, some from Mexico and central and South American nations as well. They did things the right way. Unfortunately, the media and the political complex it typically supports is also lawsuit-jumpy, and hence candidates who support the rule of law and enforcement thereof-seldom get much media and political support. Watch our elections and notice percentages of coverage. Theoretically the news is supposed to give equal time to each candidate and be neutral on who should or should not win. Unfortunately here in the U.S. the networks have lost much credibility, because this is not the case. It is clear as crystal not only who the networks WANT to win, but also based on the hugely disproportional coverage that in general, they intend to help him win. Too bad there is no substance behind the candidate. Too much of that going around, IMHO....

Originally Posted by icedog

Perhaps the problem is not with our borders or our laws. Perhaps the problem stems from the corrrupt governments of the Central and South American countries from which our immigrants flee. These people, like any people will and have risked life and limb to make a living for themselves and their families. It is likely that if the situation were reversed, I would sneak into Mexico, Guatemala, Equador or anywhere I had to to get money to feed myself and my family. If I found myself landing in a Spanish speaking country but in an English speaking neighborhood, I would speak English as much as possible.

Interesting point, although it should be noted that refugees are a completely different matter than those wishing to come here make (for them) a lot of money to send home and take advantage of what others pay for with no return. No one is asking anyone not to speak their native tongue, I would probably do the same. Th only thing asked is a conscious effort to learn the majority language as well. Most tourists can learn to ask where the restroom and order "two more beers, please" in just about any language in a few hours. It like people are being asked to speak with a convincing "American" accent or anything. Just as in your example of the English speaking neighborhood, that is perfectly fine, but then you should also speak enough Spanish in that situation to function within that society.

Of course, if you are being hunted, and are evading or some such, this discussion is not exactly about that, either.

Gugi, I understand your premise that everything ties into money, but in this case, I feel it is irrelevant in most cases, although I've stated how I feel about illegal "immigration" earlier. Someone wishing to become a citizen or a resident alien (no other reason to stay here) is a liability if they refuse to learn rudimentary English, not to mention this is an indication of why one truly came to the US (or any other country...).

Much as in the past people would try to get married for money to speed up the citizenship/green card process (perhaps they still do) the government now has to ask all sorts of questions to see if someone got married for love....or convenience. Refusal to learn the language and expecting everyone else to cater to YOU vice chipping in like everyone does....is another indication one is here for convenience only.

The statement that Americans can just go somewhere where wages are lower is not true. Most of us cannot afford the plane ticket even if we wanted to-and Mexico DOES enforce it's labor laws, and it's borders (with bullets) They tell the US we should be more understanding and leave food etc. for illegals, meanwhile the Mexican army is posted on *their* southern border shooting people.... Good luck getting a job there.

NordJim, I agree with your frustration against the global corporations, and no, IMHO they are not truly "American" anymore than they are "British" or some other nation. They owe allegiance to no nation, and if something is beneficial to them, but illegal here...they will simply do so in another country where it is not illegal. Crossing an imaginary line in the dirt "to feed your family" does indeed make you a criminal, if that line is crossed in the middle of the night, with intention of taking advantage of that country. Think about it. If you go to your neighbor's house and he feeds you, you are a friend. If you sneak into your neighbor's yard, go into his house and take his food in the middle of the night-you are a criminal, even if you are doing so "to feed your family". Convenience store robbers have made the same claim before.

Crime (IMHO) on the part of global corporations who skirt the laws of one country by operating in another, does not in turn justify illegal actions of others, no matter how honest their intentions. People come here legally both to work and to live every single day. There is a long wait until citizenship perhaps, but in the mean time they can stay here. Other nations have to wait for a lottery and all sorts of other things.



All of which has nothing to do with the original post, perhaps, but everyone here knows I tend to be a sucker for this stuff.
Those immigrating should either know English or be willing to attempt learning it. I do not think fluency should be enforced, but a basic skills requirement is only fair, IMHO for someone claiming they really want to stay and either become an American or a permanent resident here. It isn't too much to ask a good faith effort from someone to demonstrate their honest intention of being a contributing member of society, and learning the language is one such method which also would help ease strain on many various entities a new Immigrant/resident Alien would encounter, such as EMS, Law Enforcement, Fire, hospital workers, teachers...the list goes on.

Doctors are taught medicine. *Linguists* are taught multiple languages. They shouldn't have to do both, IMHO just because someone does not have enough respect for our nation to at least try learning the basics. Such people, IMHO, are not welcome and have likely no intent of positive contribution to society. Doctors are sworn to help such people in spite of themselves. The rest of us, however, are not.


John P.