Thread: The War on Photographers

Originally Posted by nun2sharp

I dont need the babysitter.

I don't either, but the bridge does...

Jordan

Originally Posted by jnich67

I don't either, but the bridge does...

Jordan

Really? I'm sure that tens of thousands of cars cross the bridge every day. One car with explosives could do a lot more harm than four people on foot with nothing in their hands. This was just another example of FALSE security that is intended to intimidate ordinary people.

[quote=jnich67;248899]I don't either, but the bridge does...

Jordan[/quote

Then let him watch the bridge, the guy was with his wife and kids. I remember being stopped one time by a couple of overweight small time barnie fife types, my wife was with me ,our small dog, our 8yr old daughter and her friend, there was an empty .308 case on the console , they told us to get out of the vehicle, and I asked why and they informed me it was because of the shell case, I mentioned that it was obviously empty and they told me that they had to be concerned about THEIR safety(not the publics). I told the two of them that maybe they ought to find a safer means of employment. It took them a while but they eventually found a way to give a ticket. This is the kind of crap that will be fostered by a security obsessed nation and/or its govt. Its not your well being they are looking out for. As jockey mentioned(excuse the paraphrase) we are all criminals, we just havent been caught yet, when they find it convenient and serving their purposes you'll be guilty.

[QUOTE=nun2sharp;248907]

Originally Posted by jnich67

I don't either, but the bridge does...

Jordan[/quote

Then let him watch the bridge, the guy was with his wife and kids. I remember being stopped one time by a couple of overweight small time barnie fife types, my wife was with me ,our small dog, our 8yr old daughter and her friend, there was an empty .308 case on the console , they told us to get out of the vehicle, and I asked why and they informed me it was because of the shell case, I mentioned that it was obviously empty and they told me that they had to be concerned about THEIR safety(not the publics). I told the two of them that maybe they ought to find a safer means of employment. It took them a while but they eventually found a way to give a ticket. This is the kind of crap that will be fostered by a security obsessed nation and/or its govt. Its not your well being they are looking out for. As jockey mentioned(excuse the paraphrase) we are all criminals, we just havent been caught yet, when they find it convenient and serving their purposes you'll be guilty.

I'll just say this again and then I'll butt out of this, for now. I disagree that the government "has it in for us" and has a conspiracy going to turn us all into criminals. There are plenty of real criminals for them to chase. The government has enough trouble accomplishing its easy goals. I'm not worried about their ability to turn me into a criminal. This is pretty much the root of our disagreement and arguing details is somewhat useless.

I go about my business and if a cop wants to watch me doing it, that's his concern, not mine. You always get a few (not most, but few) overzealous cops - it goes with territory. That happened before 9/11 and will continue in the future.

The question is, should we tighten security given the nature of the 9/11 attacks? I'd say yes. How we go about that is certainly open for discussion and refinement.

Jordan

Originally Posted by Chimensch

Really? I'm sure that tens of thousands of cars cross the bridge every day. One car with explosives could do a lot more harm than four people on foot with nothing in their hands. This was just another example of FALSE security that is intended to intimidate ordinary people.

No, it's not. In order to take down a bridge or other target, a certain amount of research is often required and or done. Catching someone in the process of "casing" the job is a good way of preventing an attack. I'm not intimidated by a cop watching me. Again, you seem bothered by the very principle of it because of an inherent mistrust of any authority. I'm not and I don't think most here are.

And...do you really think we're dealing with people who are so stupid that they won't try make themselves look innocent by bringing kids or an old lady with them? I'm not exactly an evil mastermind and I could figure out that one and a few others.

Jordan

I just don't understand why so many people are afraid. Myself, I find it dehumanizing. Kind of takes the thrill away from many situations.

It is dehumanizing. If someone really wanted to take out a bridge, they likely wouldn't have to go and case it. Discovery channel and History have enough structural programs to show the inner workings of all the major bridges. Where are the police at the architecture libraries?

I hate to be one of those guys, but right around the corner is a 2-way TV in every house and posters of Big Brother saying that he's watching us. People being harassed for taking pictures and walking across a bridge are just the first step.

[QUOTE=jnich67;248911]

Originally Posted by nun2sharp

I'll just say this again and then I'll butt out of this, for now. I disagree that the government "has it in for us" and has a conspiracy going to turn us all into criminals. There are plenty of real criminals for them to chase. The government has enough trouble accomplishing its easy goals. I'm not worried about their ability to turn me into a criminal. This is pretty much the root of our disagreement and arguing details is somewhat useless.

I go about my business and if a cop wants to watch me doing it, that's his concern, not mine. You always get a few (not most, but few) overzealous cops - it goes with territory. That happened before 9/11 and will continue in the future.

The question is, should we tighten security given the nature of the 9/11 attacks? I'd say yes. How we go about that is certainly open for discussion and refinement.

Jordan

While I agree that they're not "out to get us" it's only because that's not the motive. The original reason for a police force was to enforce the payment of taxes.

Over time additional jobs were added to that one but that's where it comes from. It's the idea "you have to do what I say because I have the FORCE (hence...police force) to back it up. If you don't....I'll clobber you.

This seems to be getting the case more and more. In some places more than others. In the UK it has gotten to the point where any kind of knife with a lock is forbidden to carry. (while kitchenknives with which most stabbings occur are still legal oddly enough). There are many more examples of this kind where the government flexes it's muscles against the average civilian with not effect to the criminal.

Somehow they think that adding more laws will do something....but even I can see a way around most of those laws and I'm not even a terrorist or criminal.

Terrorists aren't idiots. If I can think of a workaround...so can they. Stop hassling the general public and start working on the REAL terrorists.

Originally Posted by jnich67

You see, my reaction to this is to feel safer and appreciate that the police are being vigilant. I would have smiled and said "how ya' doin'?" to the policeman because I know I have nothing to worry about from him. We view things from different places/perspectives.

Jordan

yet if the policeman did this to his wife on a regular basis as she walked the streets we would arrest him and register him as a stalker. If he is stalking you it is an implied intimidation tactic under the law. And therefore a clear violation of ones rights to privacy in their person.

Many Jews didn't worry overmuch until the very day they were rounded up, because they too did nothing wrong.

I'll choose to learn from history and remain forever vigilant against the encroachments of tyranny in all its forms.

Originally Posted by jnich67

There are plenty of real criminals for them to chase. The government has enough trouble accomplishing its easy goals. I'm not worried about their ability to turn me into a criminal.
Jordan

real criminals fight back. real criminals are dangerous. real criminals are difficult to apprehend.

a "made" criminal is so much easier. you say the gov't has enough trouble accomplishing easy things? then why assume they'll take the high road and do the more difficult thing? history has shown time and time again that governments WILL do the easy thing, and go for the easier target: innocent people.