Thread: No conspiracy to blow-up WTC 7

Originally Posted by Chimensch

The New York Times article (link in my first post) makes no mention of the supposed missing corner but does talk about a beam giving way on the 10th floor. In any case, we're not going to convince each other by pretending to be architects and engineers, so here's a quote from a real architect and engineer from the end of the above article:

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I wouldn't assume anything about the members here if I were you!
We have a rather diverse crowd here and I am willing to bet that there are engineers and architects posting in this very thread. I won't assume it though!

Anyone here ever read anything about the plan to remove asbestos from the World Trade Centers and the cost of renovation of these old buildings? Also, cost of demolition. There were talks about the asbestos removal and rebuilding the electrical, electronic communication, and cooling systems long before 911. Costs were in the Billions. Over one billion just in asbestos abatement. Myself, I think someone found a cheaper way of doing it while making a very good long range profit.

There was a rap group that released (or would have released) their new CD, the day the WTC towers collapsed. Their cover was a picture of them holding a detonator, and the WTC tower collapsing on the background.

So they were in on it too. Otherwise they wouldn't have put that on their album cover, obviously.
Unless coincidence exists of course. In which case some of the other conspiracy arguments lose their weight.

"The architects of the WTC towers designed the towers with a plane crash in mind."
This is technically true, HOWEVER, the towers were designed to withstand an accidental plane crash from planes taking off and landing lost in fog. They were not designed to take a hit from an aircraft at full speed, which is almost triple the velocity. If you can remember your physics, you will know that kinetic energy increases as the square of velocity, so planes flying 3 times as fast have 9 times the kinetic energy!



I recommend questioning everything, 911, the government, your parents, your preacher, and even that loose change documentary. That which withstands rigorous scientific scrutiny is only the truth. That said I do accept the official story, only to the degree we can accept any history.

I recommend taking a look at 911Myths . They have neatly categorized all of the misconceptions and have thoroughly explained and documented what actually happened.

Originally Posted by JMS

I wouldn't assume anything about the members here if I were you!
We have a rather diverse crowd here and I am willing to bet that there are engineers and architects posting in this very thread. I won't assume it though!

I'm a real one Masters in Engineering, Electronics major. And I think Jockeys majored in math.

Structural analysis (strength theory) was one of my minor classes. Though I do not know the equations anymore, I still know enough of the basic principles to assert that if you knock out the load bearing bottom corner of a rectangular building, and heat the remainder of the steel structure, it is likely to collapse.

Originally Posted by Bruno

I'm a real one Masters in Engineering, Electronics major. And I think Jockeys majored in math.

Structural analysis (strength theory) was one of my minor classes. Though I do not know the equations anymore, I still know enough of the basic principles to assert that if you knock out the load bearing bottom corner of a rectangular building, and heat the remainder of the steel structure, it is likely to collapse.

yep, I sure did. and although I haven't crunched the numbers (the prevailing theory is more than plausible enough for me, I don't really get worked up about that sort of thing) I agree with bruno's analysis. also, to address alex's comment, many airlines have to be going 300+ mph to take off, not kph. a Boeing 767 can fly weighing up to 114 tons (that's over 200,000 kilos) and cruises at 568mph under optimum conditions (913kph) although if you don't care about engine and airframe damage and are descending, you can go faster. (a terrorist bent on suicide doesn't care about damaging the plane, obviously)

using those numbers, we can see that each plane could generate up to 13.1 gigjoules of kinetic energy, which is equivalent to about 3.13 tons of TNT. (so, about 1/300th of 1 kiloton of destructive energy). while this is not enough to completely level a building of that size, it is definitely enough to completely ruin it's structural integrity.

I'm not going to get into what I actually believe about 9-11 and who was behind it, but I will ask these questions. Why was there no crime scene investigation at the largest crime scene of recent times? They just cleaned it all up as quickly as possible, shipped the steel off to China or Korea. They gave us a list of "terrorists hijackers" and blamed Bin Laden within a week. Why did it take years of family members of 9-11 victims families relentlessly pressing for answers to some pretty straight forward questions to get the 9-11 commission? Why did the 9-11 commission only answer a small fraction of the questions these families had about what really happened to their loved ones? Why did the president have to have Cheney with him when being questioned by the 9-11 commission and why could they not testify under oath? Why are thousands of 9-11 first responders dying of respiratory conditions when the EPA said the air was safe to breathe?(check out 9-11 Truth Rising by Alex Jones dedicated to the first responders) If the official story is true, why can't the government answer the legitimate questions posed by victims families, engineers, scientists, and every day average citizens who are all just interested in the truth? If they would just answer some questions instead of running from them, they would look a lot more credible to me.

Dave,

Perhaps they don't know the answers.

It was a tragic event.

Death of a loved one is difficult to handle when normality prevails.

Government officials are only human.

Look at at other tragedies. For example the Sunami.

Do you think people got answers?

The Chinese earthquake. Do you think people will get answers.?

Twin Towers...............Do you think people will get answers?

The next tragedy.........People will not get answers. There are non. It really does not matter how many questions you ask.

Originally Posted by davisbonanza

I'm not going to get into what I actually believe about 9-11 and who was behind it, but I will ask these questions. Why was there no crime scene investigation at the largest crime scene of recent times? They just cleaned it all up as quickly as possible, shipped the steel off to China or Korea. They gave us a list of "terrorists hijackers" and blamed Bin Laden within a week. Why did it take years of family members of 9-11 victims families relentlessly pressing for answers to some pretty straight forward questions to get the 9-11 commission? Why did the 9-11 commission only answer a small fraction of the questions these families had about what really happened to their loved ones? Why did the president have to have Cheney with him when being questioned by the 9-11 commission and why could they not testify under oath? Why are thousands of 9-11 first responders dying of respiratory conditions when the EPA said the air was safe to breathe?(check out 9-11 Truth Rising by Alex Jones dedicated to the first responders) If the official story is true, why can't the government answer the legitimate questions posed by victims families, engineers, scientists, and every day average citizens who are all just interested in the truth? If they would just answer some questions instead of running from them, they would look a lot more credible to me.

There are a number of great documentaries that cover all this, and it's truly sad. Why can't the government be open and clear about it? Why can't they admit that their list of terrorists was a complete fabrication (many of the men were in known locations around the world at the time). It's just something that feels goofy, and the government isn't doing anything to make it feel any less so.

Hi Dave,
I don't have the answers to all your questions, and honestly I doubt anyone does. It is like trying to answer a grieving loved one wanting to know "Why did he/she have to die?!". There IS no answer. Hindsight is also 20/20 in this case.

Originally Posted by davisbonanza

I'm not going to get into what I actually believe about 9-11 and who was behind it, but I will ask these questions. Why was there no crime scene investigation at the largest crime scene of recent times? They just cleaned it all up as quickly as possible, shipped the steel off to China or Korea. They gave us a list of "terrorists hijackers" and blamed Bin Laden within a week.

I suspect these people were already being tracked, but the message about how serious they were or when the attack would occur did not get through to the right authorities for various reasons, including, likely, unwillingness to trust military and other intelligence types warning about this particular plot. It's only wiki, but for an interesting start try this.

Originally Posted by davisbonanza

Why did it take years of family members of 9-11 victims families relentlessly pressing for answers to some pretty straight forward questions to get the 9-11 commission? Why did the 9-11 commission only answer a small fraction of the questions these families had about what really happened to their loved ones?

Do you really want the answers to these questions? Honestly I don't believe the 9/11 commission had anything to do with demands from families so much as a desire to make political gain from the loss of others by trying to pin what happened on the current administration, and its political party. It is likely that there are many things they still do not know, and no amount of demanding from people will get them the answers they want. However, if an official report were to find blame with someone, regardless of how much or whether it was true, then attorneys and others could demand millions and millions in reparations for survivors and more importantly their lawyers (sorry in advance to any lawyers here-I just see a massive opportunity for someone to make a buck, and imagine quite a few would).
The 9/11 commission may or may not have found out the truth so much as being a mechanism for political grandstanding and an opportunity to pass blame around without much real knowledge of what happened, other than it was the other party's fault, no doubt they are to blame! There, I said it. I don't really think the 9/11 commission was anything more than a witch hunt.

Originally Posted by davisbonanza

Why did the president have to have Cheney with him when being questioned by the 9-11 commission and why could they not testify under oath?

I'm a little vague on this and it may have something to do with Presidential privilege or something, (again I'm rusty on the subject) but my take on it is that there are three branches of the U.S. government. The Presidency is one, Congress is another, and the Courts are another. There are checks and balances; while they all have quite a bit of power, if one branch were able to counter another simply by demanding something, then such would negate the system of checks and balances. I'm sure it comes down to one of these. Possibly other issues also, but ultimately neither the President, Congress, nor the Courts is supposed to rule over the other branches. Having trouble putting into words what I'm thinking here, but hopefully you see a bit where i'm going with this.

Originally Posted by davisbonanza

Why are thousands of 9-11 first responders dying of respiratory conditions when the EPA said the air was safe to breathe?(check out 9-11 Truth Rising by Alex Jones dedicated to the first responders)

Haven't heard of this; nor have I heard anything saying the firefighters rushing into the WTC contacted the EPA prior to going in. Disaster workers after the fact were exposed to all sorts of things that wouldn't be in the same environment as a typical air sample taken from wherever in the city the sensors are. Firefighters still wear respirators so do people working in dust filled environments, even in cities with the cleanest of air. It is all a tragedy, and I think the mistake here many make is thinking the government has the answers if we do not. I do not believe they know all the answers either, and, to be honest, just because we elect someone, doesn't mean the following day they are privy to any more than the day prior.

Originally Posted by davisbonanza

If the official story is true, why can't the government answer the legitimate questions posed by victims families, engineers, scientists, and every day average citizens who are all just interested in the truth? If they would just answer some questions instead of running from them, they would look a lot more credible to me.

Ultimately I doubt there will be any real answers for you. People in the government do not like to say they don't know, when people demand answers. However, sometimes, they don't know. It is also too late to say "You should have listened to the SF types about these guys" or "so and so SAID they were going to do this" when no one at the time believed how soon it would happen, and ultimately, it is difficult to explain to a populace that is angry and waving its fists that reality is harsh.
Without good information (PRIOR to the attack) there was no way to know when or how or who, or even IF the attack would have happened.
You think there's uproar now, imagine people demanding to know why their loved ones were illegally blasted out of the sky because the plane was off course, or because it was hijacked-why it was shot down without knowing the purpose of the hijackers.
It's a lose-lose situation. Perhaps the fourth was shot down, I don't know, but there was simply no way to know in time to save those people. We weren't at war at the time (so far as WE knew), nor were were under threat of immediate air attack, no fighters were circling every major city or sitting on APU waiting to scramble. Likely, had a CO had his squadron doing such things he would have been drummed out for wasting fuel (YES, the US Military has to pay for its fuel, also).
Perhaps not the answers you and others are looking for, but I have a feeling I'm close to the truth.


John P.