Thread: No conspiracy to blow-up WTC 7

Originally Posted by Bruno

Remember: WTC7 was already missing one of its 4 corner structures and was under an incredible amount of internal stresses.

Originally Posted by Bruno

But a controlled destruction uses the same principles: knock out the main structural support and let the building collapse unto itself.
So if the main structural support is knocked over, and the added heat weakens the rest, it would be normal to look like a controlled destruction because both work the same way in this particular case.

The New York Times article (link in my first post) makes no mention of the supposed missing corner but does talk about a beam giving way on the 10th floor. In any case, we're not going to convince each other by pretending to be architects and engineers, so here's a quote from a real architect and engineer from the end of the above article:

Within moments after the news conference ended, leaders of a group called Architects and Engineers for 9/11 Truth held their own telephone conference briefing, dismissing the investigation as flawed.
“How much longer do we have to endure the coverup of how Building 7 was destroyed?” said Richard Gage, a California architect and leader of the group.
Told of the doubts, Dr. Sunder said he could not explain why the skepticism would not die.
“I am really not a psychologist,” he said. “Our job was to come up with the best science.”

Originally Posted by Chimensch

The New York Times article (link in my first post) makes no mention of the supposed missing corner but does talk about a beam giving way on the 10th floor. In any case, we're not going to convince each other by pretending to be architects and engineers, so here's a quote from a real architect and engineer from the end of the above article:

”

I wouldn't assume anything about the members here if I were you!
We have a rather diverse crowd here and I am willing to bet that there are engineers and architects posting in this very thread. I won't assume it though!

Anyone here ever read anything about the plan to remove asbestos from the World Trade Centers and the cost of renovation of these old buildings? Also, cost of demolition. There were talks about the asbestos removal and rebuilding the electrical, electronic communication, and cooling systems long before 911. Costs were in the Billions. Over one billion just in asbestos abatement. Myself, I think someone found a cheaper way of doing it while making a very good long range profit.

There was a rap group that released (or would have released) their new CD, the day the WTC towers collapsed. Their cover was a picture of them holding a detonator, and the WTC tower collapsing on the background.

So they were in on it too. Otherwise they wouldn't have put that on their album cover, obviously.
Unless coincidence exists of course. In which case some of the other conspiracy arguments lose their weight.

"The architects of the WTC towers designed the towers with a plane crash in mind."
This is technically true, HOWEVER, the towers were designed to withstand an accidental plane crash from planes taking off and landing lost in fog. They were not designed to take a hit from an aircraft at full speed, which is almost triple the velocity. If you can remember your physics, you will know that kinetic energy increases as the square of velocity, so planes flying 3 times as fast have 9 times the kinetic energy!



I recommend questioning everything, 911, the government, your parents, your preacher, and even that loose change documentary. That which withstands rigorous scientific scrutiny is only the truth. That said I do accept the official story, only to the degree we can accept any history.

I recommend taking a look at 911Myths . They have neatly categorized all of the misconceptions and have thoroughly explained and documented what actually happened.

Originally Posted by JMS

I wouldn't assume anything about the members here if I were you!
We have a rather diverse crowd here and I am willing to bet that there are engineers and architects posting in this very thread. I won't assume it though!

I'm a real one Masters in Engineering, Electronics major. And I think Jockeys majored in math.

Structural analysis (strength theory) was one of my minor classes. Though I do not know the equations anymore, I still know enough of the basic principles to assert that if you knock out the load bearing bottom corner of a rectangular building, and heat the remainder of the steel structure, it is likely to collapse.

Originally Posted by Bruno

I'm a real one Masters in Engineering, Electronics major. And I think Jockeys majored in math.

Structural analysis (strength theory) was one of my minor classes. Though I do not know the equations anymore, I still know enough of the basic principles to assert that if you knock out the load bearing bottom corner of a rectangular building, and heat the remainder of the steel structure, it is likely to collapse.

yep, I sure did. and although I haven't crunched the numbers (the prevailing theory is more than plausible enough for me, I don't really get worked up about that sort of thing) I agree with bruno's analysis. also, to address alex's comment, many airlines have to be going 300+ mph to take off, not kph. a Boeing 767 can fly weighing up to 114 tons (that's over 200,000 kilos) and cruises at 568mph under optimum conditions (913kph) although if you don't care about engine and airframe damage and are descending, you can go faster. (a terrorist bent on suicide doesn't care about damaging the plane, obviously)

using those numbers, we can see that each plane could generate up to 13.1 gigjoules of kinetic energy, which is equivalent to about 3.13 tons of TNT. (so, about 1/300th of 1 kiloton of destructive energy). while this is not enough to completely level a building of that size, it is definitely enough to completely ruin it's structural integrity.

I'm not going to get into what I actually believe about 9-11 and who was behind it, but I will ask these questions. Why was there no crime scene investigation at the largest crime scene of recent times? They just cleaned it all up as quickly as possible, shipped the steel off to China or Korea. They gave us a list of "terrorists hijackers" and blamed Bin Laden within a week. Why did it take years of family members of 9-11 victims families relentlessly pressing for answers to some pretty straight forward questions to get the 9-11 commission? Why did the 9-11 commission only answer a small fraction of the questions these families had about what really happened to their loved ones? Why did the president have to have Cheney with him when being questioned by the 9-11 commission and why could they not testify under oath? Why are thousands of 9-11 first responders dying of respiratory conditions when the EPA said the air was safe to breathe?(check out 9-11 Truth Rising by Alex Jones dedicated to the first responders) If the official story is true, why can't the government answer the legitimate questions posed by victims families, engineers, scientists, and every day average citizens who are all just interested in the truth? If they would just answer some questions instead of running from them, they would look a lot more credible to me.

Dave,

Perhaps they don't know the answers.

It was a tragic event.

Death of a loved one is difficult to handle when normality prevails.

Government officials are only human.

Look at at other tragedies. For example the Sunami.

Do you think people got answers?

The Chinese earthquake. Do you think people will get answers.?

Twin Towers...............Do you think people will get answers?

The next tragedy.........People will not get answers. There are non. It really does not matter how many questions you ask.

Originally Posted by davisbonanza

I'm not going to get into what I actually believe about 9-11 and who was behind it, but I will ask these questions. Why was there no crime scene investigation at the largest crime scene of recent times? They just cleaned it all up as quickly as possible, shipped the steel off to China or Korea. They gave us a list of "terrorists hijackers" and blamed Bin Laden within a week. Why did it take years of family members of 9-11 victims families relentlessly pressing for answers to some pretty straight forward questions to get the 9-11 commission? Why did the 9-11 commission only answer a small fraction of the questions these families had about what really happened to their loved ones? Why did the president have to have Cheney with him when being questioned by the 9-11 commission and why could they not testify under oath? Why are thousands of 9-11 first responders dying of respiratory conditions when the EPA said the air was safe to breathe?(check out 9-11 Truth Rising by Alex Jones dedicated to the first responders) If the official story is true, why can't the government answer the legitimate questions posed by victims families, engineers, scientists, and every day average citizens who are all just interested in the truth? If they would just answer some questions instead of running from them, they would look a lot more credible to me.

There are a number of great documentaries that cover all this, and it's truly sad. Why can't the government be open and clear about it? Why can't they admit that their list of terrorists was a complete fabrication (many of the men were in known locations around the world at the time). It's just something that feels goofy, and the government isn't doing anything to make it feel any less so.