Thread: Credit crisis

Originally Posted by thebigspendur

So you walk into a real estates agents office to buy a house and your not the college graduate type and you know nothing about real estate and the expert sits down with you and shows you with pen and paper how you can afford to buy this house. Maybe he tells you the mortgage is interest only or not even that or maybe he doesn't. All you know is this expert is showing you the path to home ownership. Maybe he tells you in 5 years you will have to refinance or move but look at the market going up and up and all the money ordinary folks are making. If the big shots on wall street can do it why shouldn't Joe Public be able to do the same. Or maybe your the real fiscal conservative living in California paying 2 grand a month for a 1 bedroom apartment realizing you could never afford to buy a home the old fashioned way and all your friends who make the same as you are not only living in their own homes but have investment properties and drive around in BMWs and are always traveling and having a grand time so you think who's the real chump here?

Why are people now trying to pin most of this on the average American? They are just trying to get ahead like everyone else. If the fiscal system worked as it should have these scenarios would never have happened.

I'm not a college graduate, in fact I barely finished high school. I bought a house last year in march and I knew, based on my earnings at that time, and my earnings history about what I could afford! It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out what sort of monthly payments you should be able to afford! No matter what the slick salesmen tell you, you should already have an idea of what you can afford when you make up your mind to buy a house, period!! Oh, and if I lose my house, its my fault and nobody else"s! I took the chance and I'll pay the piper!

Does anyone else take responsibility for their decisions?

Why is it that everyone seems to think that we need to bail this out to save the people who took bad loans and the idiots who wrote them? If that were the case, I'd say fine, to hell with them -- even though there were plenty of well-meaning people who got sucked in.

No, the bailout isn't to save them. It's to save us. It's to ensure that our money market accounts and 401Ks don't disappear. It's to make sure that we can get car loans if we need them and that people in service industries don't all lose their jobs. It's to make sure the rest of us don't have to take pay cuts to keep our jobs. It's to keep crime rates down and police forces staffed. It's to enable kids who aren't filthy rich to go to college, and to keep highway bridges from collapsing in piles of rust.

These are all possibilities if enough of our financial infrastructure tanks. Hell, it's a possibility even if we attempt a bailout. This is a serious situation, people, and we can't afford too many more mistakes.

But I agree with Senator Obama -- we shouldn't just take $700 billion and give it to the same pack of grifters who got us into this sh-- pool, with no oversight, no questions asked.

Courage, folks. This could get bad.

j

Originally Posted by Nord Jim

Why is it that everyone seems to think that we need to bail this out to save the people who took bad loans and the idiots who wrote them? If that were the case, I'd say fine, to hell with them -- even though there were plenty of well-meaning people who got sucked in.

No, the bailout isn't to save them. It's to save us. It's to ensure that our money market accounts and 401Ks don't disappear. It's to make sure that we can get car loans if we need them and that people in service industries don't all lose their jobs. It's to make sure the rest of us don't have to take pay cuts to keep our jobs. It's to keep crime rates down and police forces staffed. It's to enable kids who aren't filthy rich to go to college, and to keep highway bridges from collapsing in piles of rust.

These are all possibilities if enough of our financial infrastructure tanks. Hell, it's a possibility even if we attempt a bailout. This is a serious situation, people, and we can't afford too many more mistakes.

But I agree with Senator Obama -- we shouldn't just take $700 billion and give it to the same pack of grifters who got us into this sh-- pool, with no oversight, no questions asked.

Courage, folks. This could get bad.

j

Are you saying its all about selfishness then? Isn't that what got us into this mess! I say be responsible, ride out the storm, and take your lumps!

Originally Posted by JMS

Are you saying its all about selfishness then? Isn't that what got us into this mess! I say be responsible, ride out the storm, and take your lumps!

For what am I responsible? I didn't vote for the bastards.

j

Originally Posted by Nord Jim

For what am I responsible? I didn't vote for the bastards.

j

Do you think this just cropped up overnight? and what about your children who will be paying for our debt? And when do we stop saving these companies from the bad decisions their leaders make, and, if our government has any hand in causing this mess, as I suspect they do. why would we trust them to make things right?
This has been a long time coming (maybe 40 years now) and every time our government steps in to prop things back up it makes the inevitable fall that much harder, so, as a people, lets deal with the inevitable, get up, brush ourselves off, gather up what we can and move forward in a more responsible way!

The market must be left to deal with the mess, and Government intervention will merely delay the inevitable reckoning and lead to a far worse crash. The bailout is not going to rescue us from anything. What we would be doing is the equivalent of selling our financial souls to the devil, because it was the government that got us into this mess. It's Paulson, Bernanke and Greenspan, who created this mess, not the free market and there's no solution that involves more government. And there's certainly no solution that involves more inflation. If the Fed keeps print up more money out of thin air we will see our dollar drop to the dirt... worthless, world wide. Then we'll be out with our tin cup in our hand trying to get loans from other countries.... not likely to happen, as they see what has happened, we would be a bad risk to say the least. If you think you can solve the problem by creating inflation, go ask Zimbabwe and see how well it's working out for them. This bail out would be the straw that breaks the camels back, and if the Federal Reserve keeps printing money it will drive the dollar into oblivion. Myself, I think it's all part of the plan. Go read about the Amero.
I really think we should just tough it out, it'll take a few years, but maybe more Americans will pay attention to what is really going on in their world. Maybe they would actually become involved with their government instead of taking it for granted. I don't expect to see the rest of the world coming to rescue us anytime soon either, they should know their problems are the result of having to prop up the United States. If you simply let us sink, you'll be fine.

I hate the bailout but I think it is necessary. Blame.... it goes back to before the Carter years. The reasons for the bailout are pretty good really. They are talking about buying the bad notes for about 30 cents on the dollar. The problem now is that banks will not deal with other banks because they are afraid of the notes that the other banks have. If banks will not do business with each other then the economy will stop! It will grind to a halt and when it does the big wheel will take many years to get going again, that is what happened during the Great Depression. We do not want that to happen folks. Does the bailout stink, yes but the alternative is much worse. I know people that lived during the Great Depression, it will change you and your children forever. We should hang all the people that lied on the loans that they packaged but is was all "politically correct" to allow people that could not afford homes to buy them and now it has become a nightmare. Us poor ass wipes that paid our taxes on homes that were not as "nice" as the other guy's at the office are the ones the are going to take it in the shorts and that stinks for sure!


Take Care,
Richard

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Originally Posted by mhailey

I have to strongly disagree with you there. "the innocents?" They are the reason we are in this mess. they knew that they could not pay their mortgage, but they put their John Han****s on the line and took out the mortgages. No one forced them to sign on the dotted line, no one told them they had to buy a house they could not afford. I'm sorry, but they are not innocent. Their overinflated egos, and sense of self entitlement is what caused this mess. In order to satisfy this demand, the mortgage companies created these loans to get these people who are entitled to house, into one. And not just any house, but a 5 bedroom, 3 bathroom, 3 car garage, with matching kitchen appliances, and all of the structural upgrades to boot. because that is what they are entitled to. Didn't you hear the acceptance speech, it is the American promise, not the American dream. They are entitled to this (in their own demented minds).

Matt

+1 People who lose their house over this have brought it onto themselves.
Whether you build a house or buy a house, the math is very, very simple.

At the top of the page you put your combined income.
Underneath you put whatever you spend on food, utilities, and whatever you have to pay each month, regardless of what you do. Put a minus sign in front of the number.
If you want kids, calculate what they will cost each month, and put that underneath the rest. put a minus sign in front of the number.

Make the sum. the result is what you have left to spend on a mortgage. Given that amount, it is simple to see how long you have to pay for borrowing a given sum.

Anyone not willing to do this but ignore reality instead is not innocent. That's called stupid.
And while I live in a partially socialist system, I do not agree with bailing out other people fro their stupidity.
Rewarding people for stupidity will start a bad trend.

And yes, I too want a 5 bedroom house with a large garden, basement, 2 big cars. But I did the math, and unless I win the lottery, it ain't gonna happen. That's reality.

Originally Posted by Bruno

Anyone not willing to do this but ignore reality instead is not innocent. That's called stupid.

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