Thread: Credit crisis

Originally Posted by Quick Orange

You know that the consensus among economists is that the bulk of FDR's programs, specifically the spending and welfare ones, actually hurt us more than helped us, right? WWII was actually a helpful thing for our economy. FDR's policies were typical Democrat feel-good policies which sound great to the blue-collar masses, but in the end don't accomplish much. If it's right wing to disagree with moronic government spending, then I'm certainly a right winger.

To me though, our government isn't a business or a safety net. Its only form of income is and should be taxes. To "create jobs" by spending tax money doesn't make sense. If the government could do without that money in the first place, then why tax it?

I work with economists every day, and I've never heard of a "consensus" that Roosevelt hurt more than helped. You're going to have to back that one up.

I believe that in hindsight (which is, of course, 20-20), one can quibble with one effort or another, but I don't believe that such a "consensus" exists.

j

j

Look, I should probably apologize in advance. I spent the morning at the dentist and the afternoon at Motor Vehicles. That probably means I'm in some level of misanthropy that should preclude my interacting with civilized beings.

But (You knew there was a "but," right?), I think its' time for "conservatives" to begin to acknowledge their bastards. This fiscal crisis is the direct result of conservative economic policy. The de-regulation of the banking industry has created this crisis that we must now either bail out or suffer the consequences. It's the proverbial rock and a hard place.

I'm not saying that there's no place for "conservative" economic policy. Personally, I believe that the Democrats -- honorable people though they be -- have a lamentable tendency to over-regulate. That, in turn, tends to stifle growth. We need the other side to temper that impulse, so the economy can grow.

But the other side of the aisle has its faults, too. They tend to let business run wild. Have you ever seen the RNC's monthly newsletter? It's called "Rising Tide," after that old Kennedy quote "A rising tide lifts all boats." The Republicans are completely dedicated to the notion that what's good for the rich is good for everyone. And now, we see the result. Human nature -- the same human nature that also makes Communism unworkable -- has spoken. We need a bit more regulation, to protect ourselves from greed.

Personally, I think that history has just delivered its final verdict on Reaganomics. You may disagree. But I'd appreciate it if "conservatives" would admit for once that they got it wrong.

Right aisle, left aisle -- we need each other.

j

The problem is the current situation is totally different than any economic crisis and we are treading in new waters. Anyone who professes to have the answers to this one is a fool. There is no guarantee spending 700B will do what they are saying. All I see is the administration that caused the problem demanding a blank check and our faith in them.

Funny when the people are hit with a crisis its suck it up and it will correct itself. Funny when Wall Street is hit with a crisis we have to bail them out.

Well, I say screw them all.Let the system work itself out. let the correction happen. Maybe what this country really needs is a true crisis to get people working together instead of polarized factions. It might be the best medicine, hard to take but in the end we will be stronger. Yep I can see it now the guy with the 10million portfolio wiped out cleaning the streets of New York with a broom along side the day laborer.

Originally Posted by thebigspendur

The problem is the current situation is totally different than any economic crisis and we are treading in new waters. Anyone who professes to have the answers to this one is a fool. There is no guarantee spending 700B will do what they are saying. All I see is the administration that caused the problem demanding a blank check and our faith in them.

Funny when the people are hit with a crisis its suck it up and it will correct itself. Funny when Wall Street is hit with a crisis we have to bail them out.

Well, I say screw them all.Let the system work itself out. let the correction happen. Maybe what this country really needs is a true crisis to get people working together instead of polarized factions. It might be the best medicine, hard to take but in the end we will be stronger. Yep I can see it now the guy with the 10million portfolio wiped out cleaning the streets of New York with a broom along side the day laborer.

I sympathize. I really do. There's nothing I'd like better than to hang these bastards up by their undersized gonads and let them swing.

But is it worth it when the result is 20 million Americans losing their jobs? How about 80 million Americans losing their homes? Or 100 million Americans losing their retirement investments?

The best I can see here is to solve the problem and make sure it never happens again. I'm intrigued by the idea of bailing out homeowners, not banks. That way, the bad debt that threatens to sink the banks becomes good debt. And average Americans are protected in the process -- the innocents.

I'd have to see the figures, though.

j

Originally Posted by Nord Jim

bailing out homeowners, not banks. That way, the bad debt that threatens to sink the banks becomes good debt. And average Americans are protected in the process -- the innocents.

j

I have to strongly disagree with you there. "the innocents?" They are the reason we are in this mess. they knew that they could not pay their mortgage, but they put their John Han****s on the line and took out the mortgages. No one forced them to sign on the dotted line, no one told them they had to buy a house they could not afford. I'm sorry, but they are not innocent. Their overinflated egos, and sense of self entitlement is what caused this mess. In order to satisfy this demand, the mortgage companies created these loans to get these people who are entitled to house, into one. And not just any house, but a 5 bedroom, 3 bathroom, 3 car garage, with matching kitchen appliances, and all of the structural upgrades to boot. because that is what they are entitled to. Didn't you hear the acceptance speech, it is the American promise, not the American dream. They are entitled to this (in their own demented minds).

Matt

Originally Posted by mhailey

I have to strongly disagree with you there. "the innocents?" They are the reason we are in this mess. they knew that they could not pay their mortgage, but they put their John Han****s on the line and took out the mortgages. No one forced them to sign on the dotted line, no one told them they had to buy a house they could not afford. I'm sorry, but they are not innocent. Their overinflated egos, and sense of self entitlement is what caused this mess. In order to satisfy this demand, the mortgage companies created these loans to get these people who are entitled to house, into one. And not just any house, but a 5 bedroom, 3 bathroom, 3 car garage, with matching kitchen appliances, and all of the structural upgrades to boot. because that is what they are entitled to. Didn't you hear the acceptance speech, it is the American promise, not the American dream. They are entitled to this (in their own demented minds).

Matt

This was to be my next post! Well, you left me a scrap anyways!

The Government, through Fannie May and Freddy Mac helped to support this insanity by making it easier to get qualified for a loan! People who should've never been qualified in the first place!

i have an idea. let the mortgage companies work it out with their customers. sort of like what bigspendur said - let the system correct itself

The people don't want it (see this poll showing that only 28% support the bailout; and see this).

Most economists don't want it (see this and this).

Many congress people don't want it (see here