Thread: Debate #3! Its about time McCain took the fight to Obama!

Originally Posted by Navaja

Why do you think the stock market has crashed?
In anticipation to the potential Obama's dividend and capital gain tax increase.

At best this is a conspiracy theory. Would you happen to have some evidence to support this statement?

Originally Posted by Navaja

I don't think 28% capital gain tax will lure investors into the market.

I wonder how many investors do you know to make such a blanket statement. There are a lo of factors that determine their decision and I would be very interested to find out why you give such importance to the capital gains tax.

Originally Posted by Navaja

And there's a lot of middle class people that have investments and don't welcome Obama's program.

I guess we'll find out in 3 weeks if there's enough of them, or the ones who welcome his program are more. Right now the polls don't favor your statement.

Originally Posted by Navaja

We're on the way to socialism/communism, and some of us already know what happens next.

I don't really know what happens next, but if I have to make an educated guess I'd say Obama becomes a president and we see if (1) he will implement what he promises to be his policies
(2) if he does, whether they'll work.

BTW I have unrelated question, since you have the Cuban flag as your avatar, have you lived in socialism/ communism?

Originally Posted by Bruno

Please tell me. Most of us in western europe have been living in partly socialist countries for over half a century, and some far longer than that. So whatever bad is happening in your vision of socialism should happen any day now...

Don't you get foodstamps down there bruno? We do at least. Well they are bigger than stamps and they have pictures and colours, and a metal strip going through them. And you can trade them in for other stuff than just food - You should have seen the line I had to wait in to get my iphone!

Curse you socialism!

Originally Posted by Chady

Don't you get foodstamps down there bruno? We do at least. Well they are bigger than stamps and they have pictures and colours, and a metal strip going through them. And you can trade them in for other stuff than just food - You should have seen the line I had to wait in to get my iphone!

Curse you socialism!

Yep we got 'em. Not sure if you were joking or not (don't know if denmark actually has them), but we actually have something called 'meal checks' which is like checks, and you can (theoretically) only buy food and drink with them.
They are part of the salary package of nearly every employee, from the lowest emplyment levels up to executive level.

It's basically a percentage of your wages which is paid out with these checks instead of actual money.
The big deal is that you don't pay the normal income tax and social security on them, which you do pay on the rest of your salary. The underlying assumption is that you shouldn't be taxed (or only very minimal) on money you need to buy food.

Now, I don't exactly know why they can't just tax a portion of your money less than the rest of it, and just pay you the money instead of having to use this monopoly money. I assume it is bureaucracy.
Probably to find work for all the gov clerks that would otherwise not have anything meaningful to do.

But yes. Damn our social safety net and medicare system. The horror of people not being neglected and left to their own misery, just because they are not rich and.. erhm

McCain certainly didn't do well enough to turn this around


Not even close.

Did anyone else notice how McCain's eyes seemed to be bothering him? They looked watery and he was blinking a lot it seemed.


Back on topic:

I think this debate contained the best questions so far. Again, the fact check will be my favorite part of this whole thing. With both sides lying about the other, this debate should be rife with fact check fodder. McCain definitely went on the attack, but he had little choice as he is the one against the ropes. I do think that it is totally irresponsible and even a bit dangerous for McCain to talk about cutting taxes at this time. I didn't think that way until talking to two of my friends who are both economists. They made the point that government intervention is going to be seen as necessary as people move to government backed investments for security. That is going to cost money. For better or for worse, taxes are going up. Interestingly, if our (my wifes and my) 1040 looks the same this year as it did last year, we would pay more under McCain's plan than under Obama's. Our health care would get the S**T taxed out of it and push our income down quite a bit.

@Navaja:

It would be better if you supported your statements with some kind of facts. For instance, to boil the dropping market down to one cause certainly sounds ignorant without facts to back up your assertion.


-Rob

I'll show you my source if you show me yours!

Originally Posted by hoglahoo

I'll show you my source if you show me yours!

fivethirtyeight.com

***To all who quoted me on the previous page, I was replying to Mr. Jeeter's post, having missed the others that already dealt with the issue. Sorry.

If you'll look back up there, I realized that I had reiterated what Bruno said, and altered my post to have more substancial opinions.***

Navaja,

Surely, you can't believe this mess is Barack Obama's fault, it's been brewing for years in direct ways like the overinflated housing market that "always goes up" (contributing the mechanism that set it into action) and in indirect ways like CEOs of major corporations getting creative with the books (which contributed a large portion of the uncertainty that is continuing to hurt wall street).

The truth is that offering a tax cut right now may not be the responsible way to go about handling things currently, I'm not saying I look forward to it, just that, if it's necessary, by all means lets do what we have do to fix this. Name calling and finger pointing is not going to get the economy back on track.

And it's really sad that Obama keeps getting tied to these people that he had mostly inconsequential relationships with (and absolutely nothing to do with their actions). It's like saying that I can't be trusted because I had a friend in highschool that's now in prison. "Guilty by association" has always been a cheap shot and is deleterious to the tone of American political campaigns.

Originally Posted by Russel Baldridge

And it's really sad that Obama keeps getting tied to these people that he had mostly inconsequential relationships with (and absolutely nothing to do with their actions). It's like saying that I can't be trusted because I had a friend in highschool that's now in prison. "Guilty by association" has always been a cheap shot and is deleterious to the tone of American political campaigns.

McCain just headed up his Transition Team with the former lobbyist for Saddam Hussein. Fortunately, this is likely to be a Transition Team without a job.

Originally Posted by ScottS

fivethirtyeight.com

Thanks Scott.

My source was MS Paint, I believe you got me there. 5 thirty 8 looks like a decent source

0.09% chance that McCain will win in a landslide lol.