Thread: The story of thanks giving!

Originally Posted by AFDavis11

No, as qouted Bradford didn't write like that. There are no "translations" of English. Bradford was a bad speller. That is how I know he is using a modern version, which has been screwed up.

Almost as bad as tweeking the quote around to support a poor thesis.

The only thing dumber is the analysis that goes with it.

Sure there are translations of English. Bradford's early modern English has been modified for publications just as has Shakespeare's works and the King James version of the Bible have been for modern readership. Does moving a couple of letters around so that you can find the word in a current dictionary really screw up the content of what Bradford was saying?

I won't comment on the analysis around the quotes though, besides that apparently Bradford's community failed at using some sort of commonwealth idea -

PS I didn't know Bradford was a bad speller. I guess that is typically something that gets corrected in translation, unfortunately...

Well, I cannot comment on the veracity of any of it. But I do enjoy a good read.

Happy Thanksgiving chaps!!

James.

Ah but you failed to mention the most important thing... why did they land at Plymouth instead of the original destination of virginia?... they were running low on BEER!

keep it simple and keep the tap open! thanksgiving is a happy accident caused by running short on the principle liquid of life... please work diligently to prevent further outbreak of religious and political zealotry!

Originally Posted by hoglahoo

Sure there are translations of English. Bradford's early modern English has been modified for publications just as has Shakespeare's works and the King James version of the Bible have been for modern readership.

Does moving a couple of letters around so that you can find the word in a current dictionary really screw up the content of what Bradford was saying?

I won't comment on the analysis around the quotes though, besides that apparently Bradford's community failed at using some sort of commonwealth idea -

Yes, because some of the men were selfish.

No, but its not called a translation.

When you qoute, adequately, you do so in context of the meaning. You don't leave out stuff like:

"Let pone objecte this is mens corruption, and nothing to the course it selfe."

In other words, when you look at the actual qoutation, he is saying that some of the men were selfish but there was nothing wrong with the communal activity in itself.

Oh, gee. That kinda puts a spin on things doesn't it?

Originally Posted by AFDavis11

No, but its not called a translation.

When you qoute, adequately, you do so in context of the meaning. You don't leave out stuff like:

"Let pone objecte this is mens corruption, and nothing to the course it selfe."

In other words, when you look at the actual qoutation, he is saying that some of the men were selfish but there was nothing wrong with the communal activity in itself.

Oh, gee. That kinda puts a spin on things doesn't it?

Once you put that line back into context, rather than in isolation you will see that he is reasoning why the system failed, not condemning the men who tried it. I think he says that if men (generalized, Mankind) weren't selfish and didn't seek distinctions and individuality the system would work fine. But things being the way they are and men having these "failings?" one can get the most out of them by giving them more room to exercise their individuality.

Originally Posted by Wildtim

Once you put that line back into context, rather than in isolation you will see that he is reasoning why the system failed, not condemning the men who tried it. I think he says that if men (generalized, Mankind) weren't selfish and didn't seek distinctions and individuality the system would work fine. But things being the way they are and men having these "failings?" one can get the most out of them by giving them more room to exercise their individuality.

Thats exactly my read on it!

Originally Posted by Wildtim

Once you put that line back into context, rather than in isolation you will see that he is reasoning why the system failed, not condemning the men who tried it. I think he says that if men (generalized, Mankind) weren't selfish and didn't seek distinctions and individuality the system would work fine. But things being the way they are and men having these "failings?" one can get the most out of them by giving them more room to exercise their individuality.

Very good. Isn't it pleasant interpreting the actual qoutation.

Now, Mark, help me find this "marketplace" that you speak of infering that capitalism followed.

Actually the marketplace followed quickly as the men, and industrious women began to, individually, specialize in the things that they did best. This requires trading so that each has a collection of all that they need. Not explicitly stated from the quotes but implied when a "surplus" is mentioned.

To digress:

I think this is probably the greatest sin of a communal society; Assuming some governing body must recognize and assign each individual to the place where there effort can best go. I think most people are very good at identifying what they can best do to fend for themselves and make their contribution to society, even if their speciality happens to be a high tolerance for doing a crappy job.

Wow, that is quite a stretch. By the way, the word "surplus" isn't used anywhere in the actual document. Probably just another weird spelling . . .

Originally Posted by AFDavis11

Wow, that is quite a stretch. By the way, the word "surplus" isn't used anywhere in the actual document. Probably just another weird spelling . . .

You are correct surplus isn't mentioned, my apologies.

Not really a stretch, thats just the way entrepreneurial works you see how you cna do better so you go for it and make it happen.

By the way you shouldn't accuse Bradford of bad spelling, as I think this was written before spelling was standardized. Though with his er um... creativity you can see why they felt there was a need to standardize the spelling of words. If my kid ever flunks a spelling test I'll make a present of this book to the teacher that Christmas