Thread: Stem cell research...

This goes back to the fundamental debate over when humanity begins. I know the whole thing may seem inane to our European brethren, but there is a bitter and sometimes violent debate on the issue in the U.S. There is a vocal minority in the U.S. (albeit a fairly large one) that believes that the moment sperm contacts egg, the result is fully human and possessed of full rights. That's why Mark would say a thing like "put your integrity and morals aside." Equally inflammatory things are said by the other side of the argument.

Most Americans -- around 2/3 -- believe that humanity is invested gradually over the period of pregnancy. That's why there is broad support for abortion in the first trimester, but less and less as the pregnancy progresses beyond the first three months. The dilation and extraction procedure was banned for that reason -- it had very little political support, as it occurs in the third trimester. Roe v. Wade, for example, specifically provides no support for abortion in the third trimester. Constitutionally, abortion can be banned in the third trimester. Politically, most Americans want some sort of exception to protect the lives of pregnant women.

The political wing of the anti-abortion faction has never dealt with the tens of thousands of fetuses that are discarded -- shall we say "killed" -- as a natural part of IVF. They don't seem to want to talk about it.

This is all by way of saying that there is broad support here for fetal stem cell research. This is why the new administration and Congress will almost certainly lift the ban.

j

Firstly, thanks for the information utopia, and thank you Jim for suggesting the asbestos undies! The word abortion was used mistakenly as I believe a fetus is living, viable human life! Therefore, to use human embryos as a source for stem cells, if that embryo is forfeited through that process, to me, no matter the benefits, it is something more foul than murder! If this is true, then maybe the link I originally supplied would be more palatable to those who believe as I! My point was not to argue the matter so much as it was to introduce this link and the idea of adult stem cells instead of embryonic stem cells! I am up for the debate if we can keep this thread from spiraling down hill, but quite honestly that was not my intent!

Utopia, can you explain more, as I am quite interested

As far as IVF goes I think that that is a problem also To waste the embryonic potential for a full and healthy life so that one can become pregnant on command equates in my view to murder for your own selfish ends!

For those who use the waste and justify it is similar to the guy who sees an old broken down car on the side of the road and removes the bumpers saying to himself "well, it was broken anyways so no one will mind" all the while forgetting that it wasn't his in the first place!

Originally Posted by JMS

As far as IVF goes I think that that is a problem also To waste the embryonic potential for a full and healthy life so that one can become pregnant on command equates in my view to murder for your own selfish ends!

For those who use the waste and justify it is similar to the guy who sees an old broken down car on the side of the road and removes the bumpers saying to himself "well, it was broken anyways so no one will mind" all the while forgetting that it wasn't his in the first place!

Most of us would see it as more like buying the bumper from the guy who owns the car before vandals came and shoved the whole thing into the river.

j

Originally Posted by Nord Jim

Most of us would see it as more like buying the bumper from the guy who owns the car before vandals came and shoved the whole thing into the river.

j

You speak for most people? Gosh! I only speak for myself!

Originally Posted by JMS

You speak for most people? Gosh! I only speak for myself!

You hold a minority view on this. I was expressing a typical view of the majority, of which I am a part.

j

Here is an idea how about those that don't believe in the right to have abortions don't have them, and those that don't believe in fetal stem cells don't participate in the research or partake in any of the benefits derived from it and if they don't believe in IVF don't have it. These are all based on religious beliefs and as such the government should stay out of it.

There's an upside too it's just all those liberals having abortions, the more they have the less offspring and hey the religious right shall rise again.

Originally Posted by Hutch

Here is an idea how about those that don't believe in the right to have abortions don't have them, and those that don't believe in fetal stem cells don't participate in the research or partake in any of the benefits derived from it and if they don't believe in IVF don't have it. These are all based on religious beliefs and as such the government should stay out of it.

There's an upside too it's just all those liberals having abortions, the more they have the less offspring and hey the religious right shall rise again.

Does this mean civil discussion is not on option for you!
Your reply sounds rather snippy and not very civil. Am I wrong? I hope so, and if so please elaborate!

In Holocast concentration camps they did all sorts of medical experiments.

Those folks were doomed to die regardless. So, is it ethical to make use of the medical information derived from those experiments, even given the circumstances surrounding how the information was obtained?

Hasn't this arguement happened a few dozen times already? I don't remember how it ends. Can someone bottom line this for me?