Thread: Is this Americas future?

Originally Posted by kilowattkid

Yup. We also helped in Afghanistan against the Russians.

When you spill milk, you got to clean it up.

True enough.

But can you cry over spilled milk?

No sense in crying. We use sraight razors. We don't even cry when we put Clubman on a fresh nick in our chins.

I've got to go to work now, my tax dollars are needed.

Originally Posted by kilowattkid

No sense in crying. We use sraight razors. We don't even cry when we put Clubman on a fresh nick in our chins.

I've got to go to work now, my tax dollars are needed.

If waterboarding proves innefective during interrogations, they usually resort to putting a nick in the alleged terrorist's chin and apply the Clubman in a liberal fashion....

I can understand our allies glee that Obama will be less heavy handed than Bush (I don't necessarily agree with this view). However, Obama really needs to challenge our allies to step up and help lead. There are times when you have to say "ok, enough talk" and take action. I generally feel that the Europeans talk and talk and talk and then do nothing, and then talk some more in the hope that a problem will go away. Sometimes, things to get down to black and white. There are times when you have to get your hands dirty and our allies tend to sit back and let us do it because they know we will. I'm hoping that they will now stand forth and really help come up with some meaningful solutions.

Jordan

What do you think would happen if we gave the guy more than a week before we started tearing him to shreds? He hasnt even settled in properly ffs! Give the guy a chance before you

Originally Posted by jnich67

I generally feel that the Europeans talk and talk and talk and then do nothing, and then talk some more in the hope that a problem will go away.

If you look at our history, you'll notice that we've been at war with ourselves for over a 1000 years, culminating in 2 world wars.
We now have an unprecedented 64 years of peace, only because we decided after WWII that talking was the only long term survival strategy.

Originally Posted by jnich67

Sometimes, things to get down to black and white. There are times when you have to get your hands dirty and our allies tend to sit back and let us do it because they know we will. I'm hoping that they will now stand forth and really help come up with some meaningful solutions.

Jordan

Black and white as in Iraq?
The US went into Iraq alone because we didn't want any part of it, seeing as there was no proof to start it.
Sure, Saddam gave the UN the finger. So we put sanctions in place and talked, and he still gave us the finger. But he was contained. Whatever it was he was doing, he was doing it inside his borders, he had no WMD, and he was not involved with Al qaeda.

In afghanistan the Us had massive European support and goodwill. And Europe is still involved in Afghanistan with the UN troops that are now keeping the peace there.
If the US wants Europe to take action, it has to come with proof, not with unsubstantiated claims and the question to start a war that will destabilize the entire region.

Non violent conflict is orders of magnitude better than violent conflict.
You won the cold war on talking and spending, not with fighting.

Originally Posted by Bruno

I probably shouldn't reply, but come on...

Bruno this is why you dont comment on threads like this. See what happens?

Originally Posted by Bruno

If you look at our history, you'll notice that we've been at war with ourselves for over a 1000 years, culminating in 2 world wars.
We now have an unprecedented 64 years of peace, only because we decided after WWII that talking was the only long term survival strategy.



Black and white as in Iraq?
The US went into Iraq alone because we didn't want any part of it, seeing as there was no proof to start it.
Sure, Saddam gave the UN the finger. So we put sanctions in place and talked, and he still gave us the finger. But he was contained. Whatever it was he was doing, he was doing it inside his borders, he had no WMD, and he was not involved with Al qaeda.

In afghanistan the Us had massive European support and goodwill. And Europe is still involved in Afghanistan with the UN troops that are now keeping the peace there.
If the US wants Europe to take action, it has to come with proof, not with unsubstantiated claims and the question to start a war that will destabilize the entire region.

Non violent conflict is orders of magnitude better than violent conflict.
You won the cold war on talking and spending, not with fighting.

No, not as in Iraq. I agree, in hindsight, that going into Iraq was a mistake. Iraq does not define the international issues faced by the world since the end of the cold war.

Why do we have to be the ones to lead in Afghanistan? Why did we have to lead in the Balkans? That's Europe’s backyard. We begged Europe to take the ball and run with it there. We went war there to defend Muslims. I don't see anyone mentioning that.

Instead of always pointing the finger and criticizing, how about stepping up and offering actual solutions besides sticking our heads in the sand. When was the last time Europe really dealt with a security problem?

The cold war was won peacefully because we also had a nuclear arsenal and demonstrated a willingness to fight if pushed, despite the weakness shown by some.

I'm not trying to be nasty, but I get tired of being criticized when no other real options are put on the table.


Jordan

Originally Posted by jnich67

No, not as in Iraq. I agree, in hindsight, that going into Iraq was a mistake. Iraq does not define the international issues faced by the world since the end of the cold war.

Why do we have to be the ones to lead in Afghanistan? Why did we have to lead in the Balkans? That's Europe’s backyard. We begged Europe to take the ball and run with it there. We went war there to defend Muslims. I don't see anyone mentioning that.

I cannot comment on the balkans. That happened when I was still in highschool, not giving a fig about politics. I am afraid I don't know much about what happened in the aftermath of the USSR collapse.
You did have to take the lead in afghanistan because it was your war after all. But Europe did give plenty of assistance.

[quote=Bruno;316036]If you look at our history, you'll notice that we've been at war with ourselves for over a 1000 years, culminating in 2 world wars.
We now have an unprecedented 64 years of peace, only because we decided after WWII that talking was the only long term survival strategy.



Black and white as in Iraq?
The US went into Iraq alone because we didn't want any part of it, seeing as there was no proof to start it.
Sure, Saddam gave the UN the finger. So we put sanctions in place and talked, and he still gave us the finger. But he was contained. Whatever it was he was doing, he was doing it inside his borders, he had no WMD, and he was not involved with Al qaeda.]

I don't do this often, but I'm going to do it here... I am going on record as telling you all that I personally found, photographed, and reported WMD in Iraq in a bunker complex just east of Fallujah in 2004. Within 40 minutes of submitting my report I was fielding questions from Washington which I couldn't answer because 1: I'd already put everything I knew about it in my report and 2: I didn't have test kits with me (Nor did I ever see any) to be able to specifically identify what it was I was photographing. What I did get were pics of metric tons of chemical weapons and hundreds and hundreds of expended Iraqi army autoinjectors on the ground. While in the complex I was in my promask, but everywhere I had exposed skin, I was burning. Now, what he did NOT have was a weapons system large enough to carry out a direct attack on U.S. soil. But that he had WMD and used them is an indisputable fact, and any argument to the contrary is easily muted by simply googling "Halabja". I do remember saying to the rest of my team right before submitting the report that if "I just got Bush re-elected I'm going to be really f'ing ****ed." Why the official denial of WMD continues is beyond me, but due to that, it makes it easy for the world to do so, sadly. Also, as has been reported in open media, and to which I'm a witness, two nerve gas IED's were detonated on Hwy 6 in southern Baghdad in 2004. He did, indeed, have it. And sorry this comes so late, I've not been on the site for a few days. Oh, I've also spoken to friends who were there in OIF I who also reported finding all sorts of WMD too.