Thread: Is this Americas future?

Originally Posted by Nord Jim

Yes, I actually have sat through a union presentation. I've also lost my job to corporate union busting -- and I wasn't even a union employee. The bastards closed the union facility, where I worked, to intimidate the other, larger plant that was having a vote. Never assume that just because somebody disagrees with you, he doesn't know what he's talking about.

I'm told on reliable authority that the little podunk town in Ohio where you live is the "real America." Not sure what that makes the rest of us. All part of the Republican tendency to value some people more than others.

Use of the term "RINO" is just one of the many ways the Republican Party -- the party of my birth, which my family helped to found -- has marginalized itself. If the party turns to the Palin faction as its future, it's going to be in the wilderness for a very long time. That's why we call Sarah Palin "The Republican Moses."

j

Jim,
With your experience then on this issue of unions how EFCA will prevent what happened to you. I don't see it. I am trying to understand how it is OK for the union to use strong arm tactics to infiltrate a business, but said business is not allowed to have any recourse to run their business as they see fit. Where are the free market principles in that? These businesses will take the arbitrators judgement, run the business into the ground and reopen under different terms and be a non union shop again until the process of unionizing starts over. There is a reason that they did not open the doors for theunion in the first place.
Unions were once very much needed during the early days of the industrial society. With all the government regulations and programs (osha, epa , nfpa, etc) the union aren't much more than another lobby group and hold around 12% of the jobs in the country. The minority telling the majority how to do business.
Your "reliable authority" is wrong. There is only one America by my standards. Just as there is only one type of American. There are no African - Americans, Arab - Americans, Latino - Americans, etc. I believe A Roosevelt settled this many years ago by saying there is no room for hyphenated Americans. We are just simply, Americans.
As for the value of people, I value individuals based on what I see, read and hear from said individual.
McCain was not the ideal candidate from the R party and they better work hard on getting a true R in the running next time. Palin was a ploy to try and get the Hillary vote. It is too bad you abandoned the party your family helped to found. I suppose some of us will try to turn the party back to its roots while others will move on, principles be damned.
You have your reasons for leaving and I have mine for staying.
This thread has certainly morphed into a 3 headed monster, but all the topics discussed deal with our future. I hope the initial poster does not feel like it was hijacked.

Originally Posted by kilowattkid

Jim,
With your experience then on this issue of unions how EFCA will prevent what happened to you. I don't see it. I am trying to understand how it is OK for the union to use strong arm tactics to infiltrate a business, but said business is not allowed to have any recourse to run their business as they see fit. Where are the free market principles in that? These businesses will take the arbitrators judgement, run the business into the ground and reopen under different terms and be a non union shop again until the process of unionizing starts over. There is a reason that they did not open the doors for theunion in the first place.
Unions were once very much needed during the early days of the industrial society. With all the government regulations and programs (osha, epa , nfpa, etc) the union aren't much more than another lobby group and hold around 12% of the jobs in the country. The minority telling the majority how to do business.
Your "reliable authority" is wrong. There is only one America by my standards. Just as there is only one type of American. There are no African - Americans, Arab - Americans, Latino - Americans, etc. I believe A Roosevelt settled this many years ago by saying there is no room for hyphenated Americans. We are just simply, Americans.
As for the value of people, I value individuals based on what I see, read and hear from said individual.
McCain was not the ideal candidate from the R party and they better work hard on getting a true R in the running next time. Palin was a ploy to try and get the Hillary vote. It is too bad you abandoned the party your family helped to found. I suppose some of us will try to turn the party back to its roots while others will move on, principles be damned.
You have your reasons for leaving and I have mine for staying.
This thread has certainly morphed into a 3 headed monster, but all the topics discussed deal with our future. I hope the initial poster does not feel like it was hijacked.

Although I do know that unions can use tactics that could be described as "strong-arm," in my experience, they pale in comparison with what the corporations will do on the opposite side. Besides that, it's not a fair fight. Management holds a person's job in the balance. What does the union have to compare with that? That's why fair labor practices have always regulated mostly on the side of labor. Management actually needs very little protection. They already hold most of the cards, and as I know from sad personal experience, they're not afraid to use them. And I was management!

In my opinion, the Republican Party abandoned its principles a couple decades ago. That's what it's all about. If they became what they once were, I'd be happy to go back. The Democrats are far from a comfortable fit for me. But I'm not holding my breath. Nothing I see indicates that the GOP is suddenly going back to defense of personal liberty, small government, and fiscal responsibility.

There was no "ideal candidate" for the GOP this time around. They drove the country into a very deep ditch, and were bound to get spanked. Personally, I think McCain was the only candidate they had who could possibly have made a race of it.

j

Originally Posted by Nord Jim

Although I do know that unions can use tactics that could be described as "strong-arm," in my experience, they pale in comparison with what the corporations will do on the opposite side. Besides that, it's not a fair fight. Management holds a person's job in the balance. What does the union have to compare with that? That's why fair labor practices have always regulated mostly on the side of labor. Management actually needs very little protection. They already hold most of the cards, and as I know from sad personal experience, they're not afraid to use them. And I was management!

In my opinion, the Republican Party abandoned its principles a couple decades ago. That's what it's all about. If they became what they once were, I'd be happy to go back. The Democrats are far from a comfortable fit for me. But I'm not holding my breath. Nothing I see indicates that the GOP is suddenly going back to defense of personal liberty, small government, and fiscal responsibility.

There was no "ideal candidate" for the GOP this time around. They drove the country into a very deep ditch, and were bound to get spanked. Personally, I think McCain was the only candidate they had who could possibly have made a race of it.

j

Jim,
Our experiences on this issue are from completely different sides of the track. Your experience is that of a large corporation, mine is that of small business. By trying to pass a legislation that may curb the stuff you are speaking of, it will impact many small businesses in a negative way. I think that a solution may be out there, but EFCA is not it.

I had to laugh at the statement of the GOP going back to its roots, especially the smaller government part. The big D party it definately not that. I have enjoyed the debate, but in the end I think we must agree to disagree.