Thread: I Don't Think Magnets Support Our Troops

Here:
Fallacies
Have a ball!

-Rob

Originally Posted by jockeys

straw man

(thanks to xman for giving me the link back in the day. helpful stuff.)

Originally Posted by jockeys

straw man

(thanks to xman for giving me the link back in the day. helpful stuff.)

Your opinion does have value. To you. My opinion has value to me. Some people may choose to arbitrarily assign value to either based on their own beliefs and experiences. The ground rules of the game we play dictates that the goal is to convince others that our position is the best, and thus they should attribute value to it. Most valued position at the end of the game wins, or so the game is usually played. The prize we are all competing for is to be the sad little king of a sad little virtual hill somewhere in the internet, for a day.


yes, this is satire.

That is very funny satire.

I must apologize for my bitterness. I am at the lowest point in my life and I guess I am somewhat depressed because of the stress. This game seems like it is going on way too long when I have a pretty good idea how it will end. I really should stay focussed on finishing my book. It may be a life changing accomplishment. Or, it may be a disastrous failure like every other thing I've attempted.

I am sorry.

Brad

Originally Posted by icedog

That is very funny satire.

I must apologize for my bitterness. I am at the lowest point in my life and I guess I am somewhat depressed because of the stress. This game seems like it is going on way too long when I have a pretty good idea how it will end. I really should stay focussed on finishing my book. It may be a life changing accomplishment. Or, it may be a disastrous failure like every other thing I've attempted.

I am sorry.

Brad

hang in there, dude.

[QUOTE=icedog;322374
I must apologize for my bitterness. I am at the lowest point in my life and I guess I am somewhat depressed because of the stress. This game seems like it is going on way too long when I have a pretty good idea how it will end. I really should stay focussed on finishing my book. It may be a life changing accomplishment. Or, it may be a disastrous failure like every other thing I've attempted.

I am sorry.

Brad[/QUOTE]

Brad: may I be perfectly frank with you?
Your strike me as one of the funniest of this forum. Your comments make me laugh because of some sort of George Carlin-ish maneirism of though... but you strike me as a bit frustrated. The one you said previously about your ex-wife and the bitterness of your posts in this thread, as if ticked of by something strikes me as being rather strange. You say you are at a low point of your life. I beleive that - and if you say it, it must be true. I am not as old or as experienced in life as you might be. I never served in the armed forces, I never did anything with my life so far... so take this as you may. I could say some rather shallow things about life being tough and telling you to hang in there and yada yada, you know, BS. I won't. However, i will remind you of the great community we are part of. Sure, we talk about our little razors and our hones and show off a bit. But, for what it's worth, we are all friends in here. We know many of eachother's names so, the anonimity tha allows brutality does not exist in here... or not that much.
I beleive I speak for all here: we support eachother here. We may never meet face to face but we connect via common interests and discussions. Therefore, even if we disagree at some points, there's no need to get ticked off. We support EACHOTHER! Now... where's the bumper sticker when you need one?
Good luck for you book!

Originally Posted by icedog

I said nothing to insult you personally and if you think I did it was certainly unintentional. This thread was originated to discuss stickers on cars in the USA.

Yes, but you brought up the 4 year draft.

Originally Posted by icedog

You made statements that are easily construed as offensive to anyone who has serverd in the U.S. Military. Okay fine I threw in some cheap shots at the Belgian army but I was playing. In this country we depend on an all volunteer military to defend us and anyone else the UN sees fit to involve us with.

We do to. Granted, we may not have anything resembling the US army, but then again, Belgium is the size of new york city. With the same population. and the same tax income.

Originally Posted by icedog

The question of leadership aside, it is an unfortunate reality that the military is not populated with the sons and daughters of society's upper crust. The children of the lawmakers and war starters are not the ones facing the enemy.

True. they go to West point if they choose military at all. But nothing will change that. Certainly no draft.

Originally Posted by icedog

Your statements regarding the interruption of studies are very short sighted. Not all of us have the option to even begin higher education and enlisting in the military is often the only option for advancement. It is painful to listen to elitist statements.

This has nothing to do with elitism, but with pragmatism.
I understand your argument, and an enlistment can be a good choice to get ahead.
But the painful reality of drafting (at least it was here until the 90s) was that there was absolutely no correlation between what your education was and where you ended up.

Suppose I was a computer programmer by education, and then I spend 4 years on commando training.
By the time I sign off, everything I learnt would be obsolete. My education would have been for nothing.
You cannot shelve away math / science skills for 4 years, because they will be gone after that.
4 years is just way too long to be practical. So unless I'd stay on after those 4 years, those 4 years would hamstring me.

Also, the reason I mentioned that the military is not for everyone, is that the structure is simply not suitable for people who chafe at rigid authority, and for people who like to solve things their own way without being told how.
I know that is how you run a military, but many people would hate it and become demotivated by it.

In the event of a war, I already mentioned, this is of no concern. When the draft existed over here, there was a civil service equivalent that you could opt in to if you were a pacifist or otherwise opposed to serving in the army. Just because people are not suitable for serving in the army does not mean they are unfit for other patriotic duties. And it also doesn't say anything about those who serve in the military.


EDIT: I also didn't mean to imply that the army cannot produce thinkers. It can. John Robbins is a brilliant code debugger, works for Microsoft (I think) and has written many great books.
But just because the military CAN be a good environment for thinkers does not mean that it is a good environment for ALL people, and unless there is a pressing need, it is a lose lose situation for both the army and the actual people for force everyone to go through 4 years of it.

Originally Posted by Bruno

Also, the reason I mentioned that the military is not for everyone, is that the structure is simply not suitable for people who chafe at rigid authority, and for people who like to solve things their own way without being told how.

Yea tell me about it. I had such constant issies with authority that I got out two years early (I was signed up for six but they gave me a full honorable discharge after four years).

Thanks for the reply Bruno. Does that mean you still love me?

as far as enlistment and education, i know that the army (can't speak for the other branches) takes the ASVAB score and your grades (high school/college) to figure out what jobs you are mentally suited for. when i went in back in '96, every job in the army was available to me. i chose combat engineer. later, i re-classed (changed my job) to satellite communications. i got a hands on education and got paid to learn it. if you are a twit and get a crappy job in the military, chances are you'd prolly get a crappy job outside of the military. job selection isn't about just "we need people to shoot at the enemy". the smarter you are, the better your options. and the more you milk your options inside, the better off you are outside.

Originally Posted by kljr

as far as enlistment and education, i know that the army (can't speak for the other branches) takes the ASVAB score and your grades (high school/college) to figure out what jobs you are mentally suited for. when i went in back in '96, every job in the army was available to me. i chose combat engineer. later, i re-classed (changed my job) to satellite communications. i got a hands on education and got paid to learn it. if you are a twit and get a crappy job in the military, chances are you'd prolly get a crappy job outside of the military. job selection isn't about just "we need people to shoot at the enemy". the smarter you are, the better your options. and the more you milk your options inside, the better off you are outside.

You are absolutely correct on this. I was there too. I had top two percentile scores and therefore was eligible for any training program. The recruiter talked me into the advanced electronics/submarine program. I went to sub school, advanced electronics "A" school then Missile Technician "C" school. I learned all the state of the art equipment. Of course all that stuff would be in a museum now. I still remember what and gates and nor gates are. That and $4.00 will get you a cup of tea at Starbucks.

Originally Posted by icedog

You are absolutely correct on this. I was there too. I had top two percentile scores and therefore was eligible for any training program. The recruiter talked me into the advanced electronics/submarine program. I went to sub school, advanced electronics "A" school then Missile Technician "C" school. I learned all the state of the art equipment. Of course all that stuff would be in a museum now. I still remember what and gates and nor gates are. That and $4.00 will get you a cup of tea at Starbucks.

true, but the advanced eletronics course is priceless.

In breaking with recusing myself like I said in my earlier post, let me reappear for a second to say this: I still love ya icedog!


Jockeys was spot on with the king of the hill comment. Communicating on the internet is difficult because you only have the written words to understand meaning from, as opposed to face to face communication where you can rely on facial expressions, inflection, tone, etc. My feelings aren't hurt at all, and it doesn't sound like yours are. I just felt that we were going to have to agree to disagree, and that's okay to do.

We'll live to fight another day, right?