Thread: I Don't Think Magnets Support Our Troops

Originally Posted by JMS

Why would I make such an assumption about people I don't even know! whatever their reason for the magnets its better for our soldiers to see that sort of support than being spit on! Don't under estimate the psychological effects of either action!
As for whether I have a problem with them putting such magnets on their car? Absolutely not!
As for crap stirring? I leave that to the pros! All I am doing is pointing out what I believe to be obvious!

Thanks for sharing.

Uh oh, my dog is barking and there are strangers outside. I'll be right back.

Originally Posted by icedog

Uh oh, my dog is barking and there are strangers outside. I'll be right back.

Everything ok at your place, Brad?

Originally Posted by icedog

This type of thinking is a very shallow generalization. I know you folks have seen alot of my artwork, designs and writings. I don't want to wax defensive here as this thread isn't about this topic nor me. But I do want to squelch this nonsense right away. I served with many other artists. I wonder if you did some research would you still suggest that veterans are not able to be creative. Here is a terrifical organization that is all about artistic veterans: LAAVAA I would suggest that veterans make better leaders than followers demonstrating good team building skills as open minded self starters. Of course I am currently unemployed and wallowing in self pity but hey.

I specifically said it wasn't always that way and that I was only speaking out of my own experience. So it's hardly a generalization. It's purely anecdotal, and I presented it that way. Your link is also merely anecdotal.

You accuse me of "suggesting that veterans are not able to be creative." This is a straw man. I merely said that in my field, I had noticed a trend. I also speculated that military training regimens would have been personally detrimental to me. I agree that if I had said all veterans were incapable of creativity, my position would be offensive and, coincidentally, easier to attack. But, that's not what I said, thus... straw man.

You are entitled to your opinion, as I am entitled to mine. We have each formed our positions based on life experiences that have clearly been very different. I did not call your position "shallow" or "nonsense," please extend me the same courtesy.

Originally Posted by kljr

just remember, living your life for yourself is ordinary, the military is extra-ordinary.

essayons

Originally Posted by icedog

I discussed the various reasons people join the service in detail.



Are you reading and responding to these messages or just blurting thoughts out randomly?

I know we're on the internet and all, but I've tried to be polite to you and would like the same courtesy. I've read all the posts. I was responding to kljr when he said that serving in the military is extra-ordinary. That's a large statement that is so black and white. I was just illustrating what I think to be one of the many shades of grey. I think it's extraordinary when done for noble reasons. When guys are joining just so they can pay the bills and keep their women in SUV's with kids bouncing around without seatbelts, it's not so noble to me. Oh, wait, you already talked about "those" women.


I never said the placement of a magnet on your car is a bad thing. I said that there are alot of people who have stickers and magnets on their cars who feel by the very placement of that magnet they have made the life of someone's son or daughter who is in harm's way in some foreign land easier or safer.

I don't know of a single person who feels this. Do you actually know of people who feel this way?

As far as ex-Marines, they have done their share. They were a "troop". They don't have to do another thing, ever. They can do what they want and no one can legitimately slight them for it.

Service in the military should be afforded the utmost highest appreciation that we as citizens can give. I don't know what you mean by they can "do what they want", but I don't think that retiring from the military is synonymous with "do what the heck you want, it's cool".

Soccer mom's? Those little kept women who drive around in gigantic SUV's wasting gas and talking on the cell phone while their kids bounce around in the back without their seatbelts on while their husbannds are off working to pay the bills? F them. F them for they don't know a goddamned thing about sacrifice in the name of theiir country.

You're absolutely right, Brad. They don't know a damned thing. I'm totally with you on this one. I totally think that the mothers of our small children should go enlist and have a clue about service for the country. You must have extremely high blood pressure if you drive around town getting that angry every time you see a soccer mom.

I want my wife to be a "kept" woman. She's a nurse right now, but when I graduate, I want to be able to provide all the support my family needs. I'm not into wasting gas, but we will need to have a decent size vehicle. A minivan would be good. We want at LEAST three kids, maybe up to five or more though. That would make us need a seven passenger car to haul around our family with. I want her to be there when they go to school, and when they got off the bus.
Too many kids today grow up without a good family environment, and I don't want my family to be part of that statistic. What's wrong with a woman carrying the kids to piano lessons and little league while the husband is at work? For me, that's my DREAM!! I can't wait for that day.


As a matter of fact, it sounds kind of like the AMERICAN DREAM to me. And for some reason you're all up in arms saying "F them". Weren't you fighting to protect families like that?


I don't know if you have kids. I know you have Basil (an awesome dog btw), but I'm not sure if you have kids. When I look down at my daughter, Hailey, I want her to be taken care of until the day she wants to be independent. If my wife is a soccer mom one day, then I'll be perfectly happy about that. Give me a two car garage, a big backyard, happy wife and kids. That's all I need, and all I want.

It sounds like you are getting pretty upset about all this, so I'll recuse myself from posting anymore in this thread. Sorry if I ticked ya off. Hope we can still be friends.

Originally Posted by icedog

Okay, bingo Bruno you touched a nerve. Wow! from what deep well of knowledge are you drawing these conclusions? Holy crap, we are going off topic here but I gotta tell ya Bruno, I am shocked at your attitude. I read what you are saying but between the lines sounds like you feel the security of your country is up to someone else, the sons and daughters of someone else. Your "free thinking" sons and daughters have no place defending the frredoms that allow them to think freely. I will have to discuss this with my Belgian friends to see if this is a predominant attitude in the Flemish world. History has shown us the efficacy of the Belgian military. Pretty strong against naked Africans with sticks but I seem to remember alot of Americans put college educations on hold to go over there and die for your forefathers.

WOW...

What did I do to deserve this?
I did not say that I think some people are better than others. But shoving EVERYBODY into the military for 4 years is not a good idea, just as forcing them in college for 4 years, of forcing everybody to play american football or whatever.

I don't say some people are better than others, and I don't say military people are 'less' than others.

And about Belgiums defenses: seriously: what are we protecting from?
The only thing a traditional army is good for is fighting a ground war. And the chances of that happening are slim to none.
In other conflicts, you want to use professional soldiers because they are trained for it.
And our army currently has barely enough money to pay and support the professional soldiers. Adding a couple hundred thousand draft soldiers wil break the bank. And to what end?

And it is a pretty low shot to throw Africa in my face.
Yes, our butcher king Leopold the second is second only to Stalin, and makes Hitler look like an amateur.
This happened 100 years ago. Is this my fault? Is this the fault of anyone still alive?
Do I blame you for what went on in Abu Ghraib because you were in the military?
Do I blame you for propping up Saddam Hussein, all those years ago?
Do I blame you for Iran Contra?

No I don't, because it is not your f*ing fault!
And I never said I didn't care about my country's defenses!
I just don't think that adding 100000 draftees will help Belgium, nor the draftees, especially since no everybody is a good match for the military. And I understand that in an emergency, this is of no importance. But for the things Belgium is involved in, our professional army suffices.

However, if you insist on jumping to wild conclusions about me that are not true, based on things I didn't say, insulting me in the process... then I guess we are done talking. Have a nice life.

Originally Posted by Ben325e

It sounds like you are getting pretty upset about all this, so I'll recuse myself from posting anymore in this thread. Sorry if I ticked ya off. Hope we can still be friends.

No Ben. I'm not upset at all and I apologize if I came across that way. What I am is puzzled why this thread has, like so many others run so far afield. It's okay though.

I live in the wealthiest county in the country and there are so many people here who run around in the Range Rovers and Hummers with such a strong sense of entitlement that it is painful. One day a woman pulled out of a banquet hall in her BMW 700 series and broadsided me in my Dodge Omni. She was very drunk and kept shouting , "I don't know what you're upset about, my car is worth alot more than yours." It is people like this that have no idea what sacrifice is and the placement of a Support Our Troops magnet on her bumper is for her absolution.

I happen to have overheard a conversation while putting my sculptures back into my car after an art show in Greenwich where one woman saw the magnet on her friend's car. She said, "Where did you find that ribbon sticker?"

The other woman looked at her car and replied, "What? Oh that. I have no idea where that came from. Casey must have put it there. She always has some pet project or another."

And Ben, no I don't have any children of my own. I raised my first wife's two daughters from the time they were one and three until they were thirteen and sixteen. My wife drugged me on Easter Sunday, stole everything we owned and ran away with the girls. The older one reaches out to me in very clever ways every now and then semingly just to let me know she is okay. One day she called my office and thanked me for teaching her to love art because she was graduating from UConn and getting a job at an art museum in Charleston, SC. I broke down and cried like a baby.

Originally Posted by jockeys

I specifically said it wasn't always that way and that I was only speaking out of my own experience. So it's hardly a generalization. It's purely anecdotal, and I presented it that way. Your link is also merely anecdotal.

You accuse me of "suggesting that veterans are not able to be creative." This is a straw man. I merely said that in my field, I had noticed a trend. I also speculated that military training regimens would have been personally detrimental to me. I agree that if I had said all veterans were incapable of creativity, my position would be offensive and, coincidentally, easier to attack. But, that's not what I said, thus... straw man.

You are entitled to your opinion, as I am entitled to mine. We have each formed our positions based on life experiences that have clearly been very different. I did not call your position "shallow" or "nonsense," please extend me the same courtesy.

"Straw man" I like that. I have never heard it before but it is a good image. My position may very well be shallow nonsense. It is my opinion and has no value at all. What more can it be but shallow nonsense.

Originally Posted by Bruno

However, if you insist on jumping to wild conclusions about me that are not true, based on things I didn't say, insulting me in the process... then I guess we are done talking. Have a nice life.

I said nothing to insult you personally and if you think I did it was certainly unintentional. This thread was originated to discuss stickers on cars in the USA. You made statements that are easily construed as offensive to anyone who has serverd in the U.S. Military. Okay fine I threw in some cheap shots at the Belgian army but I was playing. In this country we depend on an all volunteer military to defend us and anyone else the UN sees fit to involve us with. The question of leadership aside, it is an unfortunate reality that the military is not populated with the sons and daughters of society's upper crust. The children of the lawmakers and war starters are not the ones facing the enemy. Your statements regarding the interruption of studies are very short sighted. Not all of us have the option to even begin higher education and enlisting in the military is often the only option for advancement. It is painful to listen to elitist statements. No Bruno, I certainly meant no offense but I was hurt by your comments. If you feel that is a reason to be "done talking" then so be it. I suppose you have nothing to gain by associating with me anyway. Personally I'd rather it wasn't that way.

Originally Posted by fpessanha

Everything ok at your place, Brad?

YYes thanks see this thread: http://straightrazorpalace.com/conve...ts-center.html

Originally Posted by icedog

"Straw man" I like that. I have never heard it before but it is a good image. My position may very well be shallow nonsense. It is my opinion and has no value at all. What more can it be but shallow nonsense.

straw man

(thanks to xman for giving me the link back in the day. helpful stuff.)

Your opinion does have value. To you. My opinion has value to me. Some people may choose to arbitrarily assign value to either based on their own beliefs and experiences. The ground rules of the game we play dictates that the goal is to convince others that our position is the best, and thus they should attribute value to it. Most valued position at the end of the game wins, or so the game is usually played. The prize we are all competing for is to be the sad little king of a sad little virtual hill somewhere in the internet, for a day.


yes, this is satire.