Thread: I Don't Think Magnets Support Our Troops

Originally Posted by icedog

IPersonally I believe that a four year enlistment in the military before college would make for a better student.

I agree with a lot of what you say, but a 4 year stint in the army is a gigantic waste of time for people who don't actually plan to stay on afterwards.

Not only does the pay suck for regular enlisted soldiers (at least it did here) but there is a significant amount of people that just don't fit into the rigid military hierarchy. Forcing them into that structure for 4 years would probably do more damage than good to their long term productivity, creativity and career advancement, with no benefit.

Also, you cannot just quit studying for 4 years and then jump back in where you left off. You'd have forgotten so much that you essentially have to start over in whatever it is you want to do.

And from the other side, it would be very expensive to pay those people and make sure that they have supporting infrastructure (bases, vehicles, weapins, ...).
With 300 million Americans, lets say 4% is eligible for duty. That's 12 million soldiers you have to pay, feed, and house. And unless there is a shortage of soldiers, they won't be doing anything useful.

Originally Posted by Bruno

I agree with a lot of what you say, but a 4 year stint in the army is a gigantic waste of time for people who don't actually plan to stay on afterwards.

I appreciate your input Bruno but i wonder what would make you say this? I see kids coming out of high school and going on to higher education with a sense of freedom but no sense of duty or conviction. I believe (and I am not alone) that a youg person who goes through basic training for the military is much more prepared to be an adult, working harder toward more carefully defined goals. I think if you were to ask the experts in the human resources world they will tell you that veterans make better employees becaue they are more prepared and dedicated.

Perhaps. But 4 years is a very long time. And as I already indicated, the military is not a place for free thinkers or questioning authority. 4 years in the military would be devastating to many people.

Perhaps HR thinks that veterans make better employees, and from their point of view that may very well be true. Military people are used to a) obeying orders b) respecting paperwork c) respecting chain of command.
But I also know that military people ending up in ICT management positions can also end up causing big problems because they insist on having a rigid chain of command, and expecting people to obey without being open for discussion. And that is not the best way to lead a team of developers or system administrators. You can't herd cats.

The military is a good fit for some things and for some people, but also a bad fit for other things and other people. That does not mean I have disrespect for it, but forcing everybody through it for 4 years is not going to be a big success any more than forcing everybody through 4 years of college.

Different strokes for different people. A population that comes out of a cookie cutter is not that useful

I think that the idea of national service is a good one, and it doesn't necessarily have to be in the military. There are lots of social services that could use an infusion of manpower such as daycare nurseries and nursing homes, transporting the handicapped, working to construct public projects like the old WPA, etc.

A 1 year national service draft is not a bad idea. There are plenty of opportunities where help would come in handy and where people would learn some valuable lessons about life. There is a lot of partiotic work to be done outside the military .

My objections where to the 4 years (4 years without decent pay, loss of relevant knowledge about your field of education) and to the fact that it had to be (in Brads post) military.

I agree with Kljr that anyone who went into the military for the hopes of a high five when they get back is ridiculous, and I never intended that. I will agree that living your life solely for yourself IS ordinary, and that military service IS extraordinary. But, I feel that this statement leaves out quite a bit. It's also a bit black and white. It makes me think "if you aren't military, you are ordinary."

There isn't a heirarchy of life whose pinnacle can only be attained through military service. Living your life selflessly can be achieved through many different venues. Policemen, Firemen, Rescue personel, medical service, etc.

And you know what? I know PLENTY of non-patriotic people who have joined the military. Not all enlisted are so honorable as those who have spoken up in this thread. I REALLY don't mean to offend anyone by this statement, but for some percentage it's true. I'm sure during this economic downturn there are plenty of people who are joining the military just to pay the bills. There's nothing wrong with that, but I can't say that it's the most honorable reason compared to those who serve to serve.

Despite what their reason for joining may be, I don't think that the military has ever deserved the negative reception that they often get. Whether it be in Vietnam, Korea, Iraq, or anywhere. It makes me sad. Seeing the state of some of the military hospitals, the number of homeless vets, those suffering from PTSD. We spend so much on the military, but so little on taking care of our guys after they come home.

I read a few weeks ago where soldiers are being sent bills after they get out of the military. One guy lost his helmet as he was running during combat, so the army sent him a bill for the helmet. What kind of crap is that? Total BS.


About the magnets; I don't agree with the statement "God bless OUR troops"..... God bless ALL troops is more like it. They are just doing what they are supposed to do. It's those who are in positions of power who cause the wars that should be done away with.

The troops on the "other" side have sons and daughters, wives and fathers, etc. just like our guys do. God bless the US troops, the Iraqi troops, the Spanish, German, Russian and so on.


A question for you though: There are plenty of retired marines around my town who have the magnets on their cars. How do you respond to that? Is it okay for them to have the magnets but not for soccer moms?

I know that the magnets do jack crap for the individual soldier. but a second question: What's wrong with displaying them?

Originally Posted by Ben325e

And you know what? I know PLENTY of non-patriotic people who have joined the military. Not all enlisted are so honorable as those who have spoken up in this thread. I REALLY don't mean to offend anyone by this statement, but for some percentage it's true. I'm sure during this economic downturn there are plenty of people who are joining the military just to pay the bills. There's nothing wrong with that, but I can't say that it's the most honorable reason compared to those who serve to serve.



About the magnets; I don't agree with the statement "God bless OUR troops"..... God bless ALL troops is more like it. They are just doing what they are supposed to do. It's those who are in positions of power who cause the wars that should be done away with.

The troops on the "other" side have sons and daughters, wives and fathers, etc. just like our guys do. God bless the US troops, the Iraqi troops, the Spanish, German, Russian and so on.


A question for you though: There are plenty of retired marines around my town who have the magnets on their cars. How do you respond to that? Is it okay for them to have the magnets but not for soccer moms?

I know that the magnets do jack crap for the individual soldier. but a second question: What's wrong with displaying them?

I discussed the various reasons people join the service in detail.

Are you reading and responding to these messages or just blurting thoughts out randomly? I never said the placement of a magnet on your car is a bad thing. I said that there are alot of people who have stickers and magnets on their cars who feel by the very placement of that magnet they have made the life of someone's son or daughter who is in harm's way in some foreign land easier or safer. As far as ex-Marines, they have done their share. They were a "troop". They don't have to do another thing, ever. They can do what they want and no one can legitimately slight them for it. Soccer mom's? Those little kept women who drive around in gigantic SUV's wasting gas and talking on the cell phone while their kids bounce around in the back without their seatbelts on while their husbannds are off working to pay the bills? F them. F them for they don't know a goddamned thing about sacrifice in the name of theiir country.

Originally Posted by icedog

I said that there are alot of people who have stickers and magnets on their cars who feel by the very placement of that magnet they have made the life of someone's son or daughter who is in harm's way in some foreign land easier or safer.

This sort of thought process is based primarily on assumption!
How many are alot Brad? all of America? All of Connecticut? your little town? or maybe just 3 or 4 friends you have spoken to?
To make such an assumption does a disservice to intelligent men and women everywhere!

My mother always said to assume and treat all as if they were ladies and gentlemen until they prove differently! It appears that you take the exact opposite approach. Is that correct?

Originally Posted by JMS

This sort of thought process is based primarily on assumption!
How many are alot Brad? all of America? All of Connecticut? your little town? or maybe just 3 or 4 friends you have spoken to?
To make such an assumption does a disservice to intelligent men and women everywhere!

My mother always said to assume and treat all as if they were ladies and gentlemen until they prove differently! It appears that you take the exact opposite approach. Is that correct?

Okay Mark, are you saying there are not alot of people who have placed magnets on their cars that say they support troops but have done nothing else? Aside from that my original issue is that the magnets mean nothing so why bother putting them on you car. Do you have a problem with me asking that? Are you going to answer my question or do you just want to stir up some crap?

Originally Posted by kljr

just remember, living your life for yourself is ordinary, the military is extra-ordinary.

essayons

Originally Posted by icedog

I discussed the various reasons people join the service in detail.



Are you reading and responding to these messages or just blurting thoughts out randomly?

I know we're on the internet and all, but I've tried to be polite to you and would like the same courtesy. I've read all the posts. I was responding to kljr when he said that serving in the military is extra-ordinary. That's a large statement that is so black and white. I was just illustrating what I think to be one of the many shades of grey. I think it's extraordinary when done for noble reasons. When guys are joining just so they can pay the bills and keep their women in SUV's with kids bouncing around without seatbelts, it's not so noble to me. Oh, wait, you already talked about "those" women.


I never said the placement of a magnet on your car is a bad thing. I said that there are alot of people who have stickers and magnets on their cars who feel by the very placement of that magnet they have made the life of someone's son or daughter who is in harm's way in some foreign land easier or safer.

I don't know of a single person who feels this. Do you actually know of people who feel this way?

As far as ex-Marines, they have done their share. They were a "troop". They don't have to do another thing, ever. They can do what they want and no one can legitimately slight them for it.

Service in the military should be afforded the utmost highest appreciation that we as citizens can give. I don't know what you mean by they can "do what they want", but I don't think that retiring from the military is synonymous with "do what the heck you want, it's cool".

Soccer mom's? Those little kept women who drive around in gigantic SUV's wasting gas and talking on the cell phone while their kids bounce around in the back without their seatbelts on while their husbannds are off working to pay the bills? F them. F them for they don't know a goddamned thing about sacrifice in the name of theiir country.

You're absolutely right, Brad. They don't know a damned thing. I'm totally with you on this one. I totally think that the mothers of our small children should go enlist and have a clue about service for the country. You must have extremely high blood pressure if you drive around town getting that angry every time you see a soccer mom.

I want my wife to be a "kept" woman. She's a nurse right now, but when I graduate, I want to be able to provide all the support my family needs. I'm not into wasting gas, but we will need to have a decent size vehicle. A minivan would be good. We want at LEAST three kids, maybe up to five or more though. That would make us need a seven passenger car to haul around our family with. I want her to be there when they go to school, and when they got off the bus.
Too many kids today grow up without a good family environment, and I don't want my family to be part of that statistic. What's wrong with a woman carrying the kids to piano lessons and little league while the husband is at work? For me, that's my DREAM!! I can't wait for that day.


As a matter of fact, it sounds kind of like the AMERICAN DREAM to me. And for some reason you're all up in arms saying "F them". Weren't you fighting to protect families like that?


I don't know if you have kids. I know you have Basil (an awesome dog btw), but I'm not sure if you have kids. When I look down at my daughter, Hailey, I want her to be taken care of until the day she wants to be independent. If my wife is a soccer mom one day, then I'll be perfectly happy about that. Give me a two car garage, a big backyard, happy wife and kids. That's all I need, and all I want.

It sounds like you are getting pretty upset about all this, so I'll recuse myself from posting anymore in this thread. Sorry if I ticked ya off. Hope we can still be friends.