Thread: Honor killing and the difference in cultures.

Originally Posted by jockeys

We kill them all. Sometimes peaceful coexistance is not an option. When my very existence offends their imaginary pal up in the sky, there's not going to be any rational dialogue.

Unreasonable people can't be reasoned with.

Ah, there's your post.

That's sounds like a very bigoted outlook.

Originally Posted by Amyn

Explain what you mean by wipe it out? I hope you do not mean kill them all?

that's exactly what I mean. it's foolish to assume that you can reason with unreasonable people.

Originally Posted by Blade Wielder

Ah, there's your post.

That's sounds like a very bigoted outlook.

it's a very ugly truth. but no less true for being ugly. most people think that you can solve conflicts like this with talk and reasoning. I just really don't see that ever working.

Originally Posted by Blade Wielder

Ah, there's your post.

That's sounds like a very bigoted outlook.

Whoa Nelly!!!! their outlook says the exact same thing !!!
Covert, submit, or die.... period end of story that's is their dogma...

So now who is Bigoted????

Originally Posted by gssixgun

Whoa Nelly!!!! their outlook says the exact same thing !!!
Covert, submit, or die.... period end of story that's is their dogma...

So now who is Bigoted????

It's all part of the double standard - some here don't expect muslim fundamentalists to be able to be tolerant and hold them to a lower standard. It's ok for them to be bigots because, well darn it, they have a different culture that we need to accept and understand. We are held to a higher standard, because we should know better.

In a way, it's more bigoted to expect less from someone than to tell them the truth. I haven't read the whole speech, but I suspect that some of this is what Holder was pointing to today.

Jordan

Originally Posted by jockeys

We kill them all. Sometimes peaceful coexistance is not an option. When my very existence offends their imaginary pal up in the sky, there's not going to be any rational dialogue.

Unreasonable people can't be reasoned with.

"Battle not with monsters lest ye become a monster and if you gaze into the abyss the abyss gazes into you."

I see the event in Buffalo as an example of culture clash. Most will be at least somewhat reasonable and should not be condemned for the actions of a few. By banning slavery and presenting an alternative to segregation the USA has made great strides. There are still racists, but overall the world view has progressed.

We must stay the course. By offering reason, it can and will be adopted even if only gradually.

X

Why should we lower ourselves down to their level?
If we killed them all, they would have succeeded in destroying our culture.
Isn't our culture built around acting decent? We are showing the supremacy of our culture by not destroying them even if they would have in our place.

I just looked up the term bigoted: "Utterly intolerant of any creed, belief, or opinion that differs from one's own."

Sounds about right.

I wasn't saying one side was more stubborn than the other; but being from the west myself, I do expect more of a diplomatic stance from other westerners on the issue. These aren't the days of Genghis Khan, where everyone taller than a wagon wheel's axle was decapitated. If you've closed your mind to anything and everything except, "you kill them all," that's really a shame. Many people have died in war because racism and bigotry keeps their eyes shut in the middle of a storm, and prevents them from even looking for a port.

And, as ugly as this truth may be, those words stink of racism. Similarly minded people saw no possibility of whites and blacks living together equally. Ever. And they fought to keep them in chains. So that's what I think of... someone that would say that today probably would have fought for a similarly bigoted cause in the 1860's. As ugly as that may be.

Originally Posted by jockeys

that's exactly what I mean. it's foolish to assume that you can reason with unreasonable people.

it's a very ugly truth. but no less true for being ugly. most people think that you can solve conflicts like this with talk and reasoning. I just really don't see that ever working.

So in your opinion it seems it is "reasonable" to kill an entire group of people because their culture poses a threat to yours... well if you find that reasonable then

There are no double standards in my mind I reject all fundamentalist views from any side.
Unfortunately no one from the "other side" happen to shave or for that matter use a str8 so it is highly unlikely that they would become a member of this forum any time soon.

In case they do and happen to post their views then you will see a similar response to them.

Again with the double standards, though a people's entire ideology exists and is centered on submission/destruction of all peoples other than ones that meet their idiology,... we as "civilized people" should be more tolerant?????

I really, really, don't understand that way of thinking, I just don't...
They want to kill you, but hey that's OK??? reason with your enemy!!!! show him compassion???? turn the other cheek???? BE tolerant???

Hmmmm No thank you sir, you go right ahead, be tolerant...


Me ??? I would rather be vigilant....

Originally Posted by jockeys

and what if that 50% isn't happy with it, but is bullied, brainwashed and beaten until it gives up and submits?

I'm just not ok with treating women worse than I'd treat a dog. I'll never be cool with it. Any culture that says it's ok to make your wife obey you (which I also have a fundamental problem with) by enforcing your whims with your fists... is a culture of cowardice and dishonorable wimps.

Well, I don't approve it but that really isn't my own business.
As it was pointed out many times the 'western culture' used to incorporate all these bad attitudes and practices, some of them not so long ago. Apparently it was able to evolve to what it is now and in anoher 20 years will be even more different.
I don't see why would anybody deny the right of any group of people to live the way they want to.
If somebody happened to be born say in USA they have a lot of freedoms that are protected by laws. If they happened to be born in Saudi Arabia they wouldn't have all these freedoms, but I do not see how that is my problem. Yes, if they are unhappy with their culture I would be supportive to their efforts to change it or move to another one which they like better, but the responsibility for this is theirs, not mine.

It is not my responsibility to proscribe how other people should live their lives, I am only responsible for mine. Killing off those who don't live the same way as me, apart from being against my moral norms, has never worked very well. I believe tolerance is the better way and I expect others to be tolerant of my choices the same way as I am tolerant of theirs. Of course I cannot force this on anybody, I can only choose to be tolerant myself.
The only thing I find justified is to defend my rights when somebody tries to infringe upon them.

Let me tell you a story. The first muslim women who I talked about their culture with were two ladies from Algeria and Morocco. They were very well educated, better than most people in the west, and were in a Western country on a career-related business. They were in their early/mid 20s and not married yet. I asked them how they feel about their male-domiated culture for example that a man can have multiple wifes. They told me they have absolutely no problem with that and it is better for a man to take more than one wife and take care of all of them, than divorce the ones he doesn't fancy anymore.
In a way it makes sense in such culture, where a single woman, or even worse divorced one is basically a complete outcast. One way would be to proclaim that culture completely inferior and go wipe it out from the face of the earth, but then our current culture was at the same stage only few hundred years ago. These things change on a generational timescale.