Thread: music censorship

Originally Posted by jockeys

That's their business. I can choose to spend my money there, or not. Just because I find something personally distasteful doesn't automatically justify moral outrage.

An example, although intentionally humorous:

I am disgusted by fat people in revealing clothing. I really don't like it. So maybe when Victoria's Secret starts carrying plus sizes, I quit shopping there. I vote with my money. But do I get morally outraged and start picketing Victoria's Secret and demanding that they only sell clothes to skinny people?

Or course not, I'd look like an intolerant ass.

I love your example (and agree more than I care to admit publicly!). Things can be distasteful without inciting MORAL outrage, for sure. The topic at hand isn't one of them FOR ME. As for choosing to spend your money there, I agree completely. I think that that is the only way that I could get this behavior which I DON'T LIKE to change. By getting enough people to vote (or threaten to vote) with their wallets.

Originally Posted by Rajagra

I really don't understand the point of censoring ignorant bigoted viewpoints. I LOVE IT when ignorant bigots spout their nonsense. It lets me know they are ignorant bigots. It lets everyone know.

Don't censor them. Publicise their stupidity!

The guy with a chair next to my tattoo artist thought the same way. No one else in the shop would do gang tats or nazi tats. he would. His theory: Better that they are all clearly marked. And with less money.

Originally Posted by Whatsthe2ndDfor

I agree with what Jockey's said...we can respectfully withdraw ourselves from any market we deem inappropriate. Also, I agree with what Ray said: I enjoy the intolerance of bigots because it is ridiculous how pig-headed they can be.

However, to answer with more than a "yes, I agree," I would have to say that it is the given right of any person, American or otherwise, to present their own ideas in any manner they see fit, be it harmful, or intolerant; however they have to be prepared to accept the backlash against their actions. While governments allow freedom of speech, this isn't to suggest there won't be a backlash from the common people.

In short, picketing is just as legal as writing a song about killing black people because they're black. Provided nothing turns violent, we should all exist well enough.

---------------- Now playing: The Smiths - Oscillate Wildly via FoxyTunes

Yep! My thoughts exactly!

Originally Posted by smokelaw1

I think there is a moral duty to make it harder to obtain this music. Why should it be different? I don't. If the music promotes ciolence as blatantly as Skredriver promotes racism, I think it should be handled roughly the same. I have NEVER heard of a rap group that is as focused on that aspect of the "culture" as the skinhead bands are....have you?

Gangsta rap - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I don't claim to be an expert on rap (as I never listen to it) but just a few minutes browsing on a lyrics website revealed all sorts of that stuff.

Originally Posted by jockeys

Gangsta rap - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I don't claim to be an expert on rap (as I never listen to it) but just a few minutes browsing on a lyrics website revealed all sorts of that stuff.

Just because Gangsta rap is about killing cops doesn't mean I don't listen to it. It's often utilized as a way of expressing their fight against oppression. Plus, it's not too hardcore to rap about "writing a stern letter to your local police department."

I will say, whenever a song comes on about killing cops and whatnot, I tend to ignore it or change songs; but a lot of "gangsta rap," such as Tupac's work, is really beautiful if you listen to it. It's not to say it's ok, but it's art in it's own regard...sort of like a pornographic painting of Queen Elizabeth can be art in the sense that it personifies the punk movement in Britain; so also does gangsta rap represent the rapper mentality of "me vs. the world," as an artful expression.

I still think everyone is entitled to their own opinion, and can sing about whatever they want to.

Originally Posted by jockeys

Gangsta rap - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I don't claim to be an expert on rap (as I never listen to it) but just a few minutes browsing on a lyrics website revealed all sorts of that stuff.

Me neither, and I never claimed (I'm not THAT dumb) that it didn't exist. But I would be amazed to hear that terribly many rap groups are as singularly comitted to a message of hate and violence. Other less than desrieable things, for sure. The racist group exist FOR the racism. Does this distinction make any sense? Or does it exist purely in my own mind?
I think a parent letting a child listen to any of it should have their head examined. I also think that stores selling it are selling things that are not good for our society, and I stand by my opinion that that gives rise to a moral duty to curtail said activity. There is always money to be gained by selling to the least common denominator in America, whatever the color of their skin.

Originally Posted by smokelaw1

I think there is a moral duty to make it harder to obtain this music. Why should it be different? I don't. If the music promotes ciolence as blatantly as Skredriver promotes racism, I think it should be handled roughly the same. I have NEVER heard of a rap group that is as focused on that aspect of the "culture" as the skinhead bands are....have you?

I HAD to comment on this one. First off I agree with Jockeys all the way. He has said a lot that is dead on. As for the quoted comment above... Ever hear of Ice Cube?

Yes, the same Ice Cube who is really a movie star nowadays in all sorts of comedy roles etc. Well, he was also a rapper back in the day lol. A VERY anti-a lot of things one. One of those "Antis" was white people. Now I actually love a lot of his older stuff and am not offended by it at all. I really couldn't care. BUT the same venues that refuse to carry Skrewdriver I'm sure wouldn't even pay attention if you tried to point out some Ice Cube stuff. It makes them too much money because of his fame.

Some quotes about his music:
""No Vaseline," a vicious attack on N.W.A. manager Jerry Heller, was perceived as anti-Semitic, and "Black Korea" was taken as a racist invocation to burn down all Korean-owned grocery stores."

"his often violent, homophobic, and misogynist lyrics"

etc.

Here are some lyrics from his song "When Will They Shoot?". Keep in mind it is early 90's. Devil and Cracker both were derogatory terms used for "white person":

"But I never run, never will
Deal with the devil with my mother****in steel - BOOM!...

White man, is somethin I tried to study
But I got my hands bloody, yeah...

cause to us Uncle Sam, is Hitler without an oven
Burnin our black skin...

Here the mack come, here the black come, watch Jack run!
Mother****ers can't gank me
**** a devil, **** a rebel, and a yankee...

Now if I say no violence, devil, you won't respect mine
**** the dumb **** - and get my Tec-9
And if they approach us
A-ight, a-ight - I bury those ****roaches...

When they shoot, no, it won't be a cracker
They use somebody much blacker..."

Now keep in mind, I don't think any of this should be censored– I just think it is ridiculous the way some entities treat these situations with something less than fairness. Now here are some more rap lyrics that I found when doing a search. These could all be taken as racist and were all actually posted together on a different unrelated forum:

"Now I'm black but black people trip 'cause white people like me; white people like me but don't like them. . . . I don't hate whites, I just gotta death wish for mother****ers that ain't right";
"Race War"; Ice-T, Home Invasion, 1993, Priority Records

"Like my niggas from South Central Los Angeles they found that they couldn't handle us; Bloods, CRIPS, on the same squad, with the Essays [Latino gangbangers] up, and nigga, it's time to rob and mob and break the white man off something lovely";
"The Day the Niggaz Took Over"; Dr Dre, The Chronic, 1993,

"Bust a Glock; devils get shot. . . . when God give the word me herd like the buffalo through the neighborhood; watch me blast. . . . I'm killing more crackers than Bosnia-Herzegovina, each and everyday. . . . don't bust until you see the whites of his eyes, the whites of his skin. . . . Louis Farrakhan . . . Bloods and CRIPS, and little old me, and we all getting ready for the enemy";
"Enemy"; Ice Cube, Lethal Injection, 1993, Priority Records

"A fight, a nigger and a white, if the nigger don't win then we all jump in";
"Ghetto Mentalitee"; Onyx, All We Got Iz Us, 1995, Rush Associated Labels Recordings,

"Black power, it's in effect. . . . you still a slave to the man; prepare for revolution";
"Prepare to Die"; Ice-T, Original Gangster, 1991, Sire Records,

you wanna know what I think is in store, justice or race war. . . . being black ain't no ****ing minority, it's a ****ing majority, so they got to make us hate each other. . . . does somebody want a race war. . . . we're all together; open your eyes; get wise; put your brain in gear; who wants a race war";
"Race War"; Ice-T, Home Invasion, 1993, Priority Records, Thorn EMI

I got them hoping and praying for a great white hope, but all they come up with is great white dopes; clumsy honkies. . . . you're ****, whitey. . . . let's play a game; it's called, pin the tail on the honkey. . . . kick his ass; kick his ass; yoh, Apache, you really ****ed that white kid up. . . . sometimes I feel like that about white folks";
"A Fight"; Apache, Apache Ain't ****, 1993, Tommy Boy Music, Time Warner.

"Kill the white people; we gonna make them hurt; kill the white people; but buy my record first; ha, ha, ha";
Queen Latifah "Kill d'White People," Apache, Apache Ain't ****, 1993, Tommy Boy Music

"We're having thoughts of overthrowing the government. . . . the brothers and sisters threw their fists in the air. . . . it's open season on crackers, you know; the morgue will be full of Caucasian John Doe's. . . . I make the Riot **** look like a fairy tale. . . . oh my god, Allah, have mercy; I'm killing them devils because they're not worthy to walk the earth with the original black man; they must be forgetting; it's time for Armageddon, and I won't rest until they're all dead" "Goin Bananas"; Da Lench Mob, Planet of da Apes, 1994, Priority Records,

"I'm black with a bat, swinging at the head of a honky. . . . The Terrorists about to murder your ass"
"Blow Dem Hoes Up"; The Terrorists, Terror Strikes: Always Bizness Never Personal, 1991

So do you think your corner record store SHOULD sell that?
I think it would be nice if they didn't, even though they could sell moeny selling it. it's legal...sure, but just becasue they can SHOULD they?
I don't see that it is OK to sell white racist and violent music because it is not-not OK to sell black racist and violent music. (double negative is intentional, of course).

Some Rap is terrible and violent. Hence, it is OK to sell White racist music? I don't buy it.

I didn't want to get into it, but there is also the social-racial history of this country to deal with here. People in a perceived position of inequality/urban ghettos, etc., as opposed to the historical majority from whose hands were handed down the racial injustices (which I am sure we can all agree, at some point in our history, at least, did exist). This surely colors my opinion on the topic on some level.

Originally Posted by smokelaw1

So do you think your corner record store SHOULD sell that?
I think it would be nice if they didn't, even though they could sell moeny selling it. it's legal...sure, but just becasue they can SHOULD they?
I don't see that it is OK to sell white racist and violent music because it is not-not OK to sell black racist and violent music. (double negative is intentional, of course).

Some Rap is terrible and violent. Hence, it is OK to sell White racist music? I don't buy it.

I didn't want to get into it, but there is also the social-racial history of this country to deal with here. People in a perceived position of inequality/urban ghettos, etc., as opposed to the historical majority from whose hands were handed down the racial injustices (which I am sure we can all agree, at some point in our history, at least, did exist). This surely colors my opinion on the topic on some level.

Go to your local Wal-mart and try to buy gangster rap...it won't happen. Many stores reserve the right to sell what they want, and often family-friendly stores will not sell (or will heavily censor) certain artists or albums due to language or content.

As far as a corner store, it's up to the owner. If the owner sells Nazi propoganda, but not rap...I imagine he / she's a racist who hates black people and likes Nazi's. It's as simple as that. If you owned your own corner store, you could sell all the music you wanted while still not selling Joan Baez for your own reasons, kumbaya included.

---------------- Now playing: The Smiths - Meat Is Murder via FoxyTunes

Originally Posted by JMS

Only one song ought to be legally black listed:
YouTube - Joan Baez - Kumbaya (1980)