An Intelligent Discussion on Nature

**xman** · 05-20-2009, 04:58 PM

First it is a momentous day. A new fossil has been found linking modern hominids including humans with lemurs and other lower order mammals. Just another example of the many 'transitional forms' (in quotes because we are all in transition) found in nature. This is the first to link all hominids together.

"MISSING LINK" FOUND: New Fossil Links Humans, Lemurs?

Secondly, I was crunching numbers with an engineer and a mathematician over some ales last night and I asked what the chances are of producing another child (I have one now) with precisely the same genetic makeup (mutations excluded) from the same partners. The number we got was 37.5 quintillion to 1, or more stars than are in the known universe! The chances of two unrelated couples at any time in history producing two identically genetic offspring at a steady population of 10 billion coupling citizens becomes fathomable. It should occur once in just over 100,000 years. Anybody care to quibble with these numbers?

Finally, for your entertainment I provide a fabulous spoken word piece by Tim Minchin entitled Storm.
YouTube - Storm by Tim Minchin (with text)

**nightbreed** · 05-20-2009, 05:23 PM

Brilliant, reminds me of something by Tom Waits, maybe " Small change got rained on with his own .38" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iW7Vf...753A96&index=0

**hoglahoo** · 05-20-2009, 05:41 PM

Yes! It is a momentous day!

Fossils everywhere can rejoice that we are now smart enough to fight for the current links (the animals) so that evolution does not kill them off. Rather, we can keep them on endangered species lists and make sure they thrive. I like animals

Variety is the palette of nature and the palate of hoglahoo

I believe in the existence of nature. Nature's proof is all around me - I can perceive it through my natural senses. Nature reveals itself to me through that which comes from it - I can make natural sense of it (most of the time)

If I had no natural sensory receptors, could I still detect nature? Could nature's existence be proven to me? Would I exist? If a tree falls and nobody is around to hear it...

Is nature all there is?

**JMS** · 05-20-2009, 06:07 PM

Originally Posted by hoglahoo

Yes! It is a momentous day!

Fossils everywhere can rejoice that we are now smart enough to fight for the current links (the animals) so that evolution does not kill them off. Rather, we can keep them on endangered species lists and make sure they thrive. I like animals

Variety is the palette of nature and the palate of hoglahoo

I believe in the existence of nature. Nature's proof is all around me - I can perceive it through my natural senses. Nature reveals itself to me through that which comes from it - I can make natural sense of it (most of the time)

If I had no natural sensory receptors, could I still detect nature? Could nature's existence be proven to me? Would I exist? If a tree falls and nobody is around to hear it...

Is nature all there is?

if you were to replace the word "God" for the word "nature" in the above quote that would be the way I see it. I suspect it's the way Lee sees it also. Leave the last question as is and I believe the modified quote above the last question answers the last question.
I will follow this thread with interest but am not likely to post again as I believe you can not have discussion of nature without God being part of it and my feelings are you don't want God to be a part of this discussion.
If my assumption is wrong X please correct me.

**xman** · 05-20-2009, 06:22 PM

Well, the spoken word piece should have been pretty clear on that. If I had wanted the discussion to include mythology I would have posted in one of the threads already started on the topic. This thread is an invitation to critical thinkers and rationalists to discuss these and other matters of fascination for me and others about the evidential natural world and its factual wonders, not to get into a debate nature vs notion. Nature vs. nurture? Sure we can go there. I cordial request all members to refrain from such posts or baiting etc. Let's all please stay on topic.

Thanks for all cooperation and relevant participation.

X

**hoglahoo** · 05-20-2009, 06:28 PM

Originally Posted by xman

Let's all please stay on topic.

Will do, X!

(I need to get my audio hooked up to listen to the vids)

**JMS** · 05-20-2009, 06:32 PM

Originally Posted by xman

Well, the spoken word piece should have been pretty clear on that. If I had wanted the discussion to include mythology I would have posted in one of the threads already started on the topic. This thread is an invitation to critical thinkers and rationalists to discuss these and other matters of fascination for me and others about the evidential natural world and its factual wonders, not to get into a debate nature vs notion. Nature vs. nurture? Sure we can go there. I cordial request all members to refrain from such posts or baiting etc. Let's all please stay on topic.

Thanks for all cooperation and relevant participation.

X

Would not using the word "mythology" to describe the strongly held beliefs of those who believe in God and believe that the proof of God is all around us be baiting as you put it?

As you were. Carry on. I'll no longer bother this thread.

**xman** · 05-20-2009, 06:55 PM

Originally Posted by JMS

Would not using the word "mythology" ... be baiting as you put it?

No. I merely meant to include pink unicorns and black cats crossing your path and all other fanciful notions and unsubstantiated claims.

**Jimbo** · 05-20-2009, 09:32 PM

Well, what I think is.....Oh! Hang on. You said "intelligent"? Sorry, I'm in the wrong thread. Carry on.

...
...

(Can anyone direct me to the gormless discussion on nature please?)

James.

**gregs656** · 05-20-2009, 10:09 PM

Nature fascinates me. The patterns are astonishing.

I am a great believer in nurture when it comes to people though, I do believe that there are certain biological conditions that restrict or promote certain types of behavior, but I also believe that our environment plays it's part - at the very least an equal part.

IMO nature vs nurture should not be a debate. There is an interaction. Nature via nurture - some people call it.

Society influences us in a great many ways, it is interesting to me that there is almost no evidence to support the idea that we have free will. Our legal system is based upon an idea that is completely unfounded. The only evidence is we all like to think we do.

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