Thread: Politics and Religion

Originally Posted by Chimensch

Europe is no different than the US ... you can discuss politics and religion only if you avoid certain opinions and topics. For example, in Europe it is a crime to state certain facts, even if they can be proved to be true, because they are defined as hate crimes.

Really? Which "facts" are you referring to?

Primarily denying the holocaust being a fact but you also get into muddy waters when you say something against immigrants.

Originally Posted by 0livia

Primarily denying the holocaust being a fact but you also get into muddy waters when you say something against immigrants.

Chimensch said it was a crime to state certain facts.

Denying the Holocaust isn't exactly stating a fact, it's more like lying. In fact, it is lying. I have known a few survivors and former American solders who were witnesses to it. I could see that lying might be considered a punishable offense in some places, especially if it was being used to justify a racist agenda on the part of the liar.

I'm hoping that Chimensch could be a mensch tell me which fact he could be punished for stating. I'm very curious about this clear travisty of justice.

Yes I'm curious as well.
I would guess that it concerns the latter though.
For example you can't say that the crime rate in Germany among young Turks is higher than among Italians, Germans or any other nationality because you're not allowed to connect the nationality with the crime rate.

Originally Posted by joesixpack

Really? Which "facts" are you referring to?

Originally Posted by joesixpack

Chimensch said it was a crime to state certain facts.

Denying the Holocaust isn't exactly stating a fact, it's more like lying. In fact, it is lying. I have known a few survivors and former American solders who were witnesses to it. I could see that lying might be considered a punishable offense in some places, especially if it was being used to justify a racist agenda on the part of the liar.

I'm hoping that Chimensch could be a mensch tell me which fact he could be punished for stating. I'm very curious about this clear travisty of justice.

My original post was in response to LX Emergency, to bring him back to reality by reminding him that Europe is not all that superior in having taboos against talking about politics/religion. I alluded to certain topics without naming them because everyone knows what they are. You understood what I meant and your blood began to boil, which is why these subjects are taboo in the first place.

In all honesty, and I mean no disrespect to you, but your two posts are a good example of why talking about these subjects is taboo. You've heard certain things and you sincerely believe them to be true. You will become extremely irate with anyone that even brings them up, let alone contradicts what you know to be true.

In fact, it is very revealing that you didn't even wait to hear what I might have to say before you started talking about people "lying".

I'm not afraid to say what I think but you've already demonstrated that you can't be civil, so let's just all do ourselves a favor and admit that politics and religion ought to be taboo.

On the other hand, if you are sincerely interested, you can PM me and I will respond.

Shows how wrong I can be .......

OK, INTEGRITY IS:
forgetting real quick and answering topic related posts anyway.

What would be the punishment for such crimes? And since you mentioned that "in Europe" these things are true, is it some EU international law? Or does each country enforce them separately? I'm intrigued (and not irate one bit).

Originally Posted by Chimensch

My original post was in response to LX Emergency, to bring him back to reality by reminding him that Europe is not all that superior in having taboos against talking about politics/religion. I alluded to certain topics without naming them because everyone knows what they are. You understood what I meant and your blood began to boil, which is why these subjects are taboo in the first place.

In all honesty, and I mean no disrespect to you, but your two posts are a good example of why talking about these subjects is taboo. You've heard certain things and you sincerely believe them to be true. You will become extremely irate with anyone that even brings them up, let alone contradicts what you know to be true.

In fact, it is very revealing that you didn't even wait to hear what I might have to say before you started talking about people "lying".

I'm not afraid to say what I think but you've already demonstrated that you can't be civil, so let's just all do ourselves a favor and admit that politics and religion ought to be taboo.

On the other hand, if you are sincerely interested, you can PM me and I will respond.

Your "facts" appear to be a little askew as 0livia had already answered the question for you, and secondly I saw no indication of Joes blood boiling as you say, and thirdly I don't think I have ever seen what could be characterized as an uncivil post authored by Joesixpack in any political thread I have ever read .

Well I was kind of on a wrong track.
Seriously I did not expect to ever meet anyone who dares to demand the right to publish the "holocaust lie". Thats a smack in the face of every victim of the nazi regime AND even of every ex nazi who had to face "reality" the hard way after the war. I by myself have been brought up by one and I've experienced directly what it meant for my grandfather to have had a weak enough character to have been mislead, having followed and having been punished for that later on. There were a lot of them who did not know better than saving their sanity by totally denying what they have seen and done. There were also a lot of them who knew they were responsible for a later generation and wised up with all the pain included that it takes to regret. Whatever they did, they were part of it and had to.
You, Chimensch were not!
So I'm so glad we have these laws and wish we could apply them more often.

Originally Posted by JMS

... and thirdly I don't think I have ever seen what could be characterized as an uncivil post authored by Joesixpack in any political thread I have ever read .

Thank you JMS, that's about the nicest thing anyone has ever said about me. I'm getting a bit choked up.