Thread: Sequel to "I never know what to say about such things"

Originally Posted by JMS

Someone, who shall remain nameless Ogie, compared the murderer of the good doctor in my previous thread to a terrorist and I was pointing out an inconsistency, not only to the comparison but to legalized abortion.

Haha! Right you are my friend. I believe I was (one of) the nameless someones.

And, if you asked me again (and I suppose you are), I would say that this crime has the same terrorist properties -- cowardice, shame, and I forget what the last thing I said was, but that, too. As far as I'm concerned, any time someone attacks someone else who is innocent and/or defenseless for some "cause", I'd say that's pretty much the definition of terrorism.

Told you I was a few drinks deep. I already forgot what I wrote this afternoon!

Bottoms up!

Ogie

Originally Posted by Oglethorpe

Haha! Right you are my friend. I believe I was (one of) the nameless someones.

And, if you asked me again (and I suppose you are), I would say that this crime has the same terrorist properties -- cowardice, shame, and I forget what the last thing I said was, but that, too. As far as I'm concerned, any time someone attacks someone else who is innocent and/or defenseless for some "cause", I'd say that's pretty much the definition of terrorism.

Told you I was a few drinks deep. I already forgot what I wrote this afternoon!

Bottoms up!

Ogie

So, by your definition abortion is an act of terrorism. Is that right?

Originally Posted by JMS

Someone, who shall remain nameless Ogie, compared the murderer of the good doctor in my previous thread to a terrorist and I was pointing out an inconsistency, not only to the comparison but to legalized abortion.

I swore after that last thread that I wasn't going to post if it wasn't straight razor related ..... never say never.... I haven't looked it up in the dictionary but I am under the impression that someone who uses violence to affect political change is by definition a terrorist.

Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

I swore after that last thread that I wasn't going to post if it wasn't straight razor related ..... never say never.... .

I have that effect on people!

Originally Posted by JMS

I started this thread as I noted some making the comparison of the man who shot the good doctor to a terrorist.

In my eyes it's simple. Anyone who uses terror to achieve his ends is a terrorist. * I expect that man wanted to strike fear in other doctors doing similar abortion work, so yes, I'd call him a terrorist.

(*) Of course that implies that there are "good" terrorists as well as bad ones, legally acting ones as well as illegally acting ones...

The phrase "good terrorists" sounds odd, but when we firebombed Germany in WW2 I'd call that terrorism, but ultimately in a good cause. Same thing nuking Hiroshima.

Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

I haven't looked it up in the dictionary but I am under the impression that someone who uses violence to affect political change is by definition a terrorist.

So were the founding fathers terrorists, just trying to refine the definition and not putting words into anybody's mouth.

Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

I swore after that last thread that I wasn't going to post if it wasn't straight razor related ..... never say never.... I haven't looked it up in the dictionary but I am under the impression that someone who uses violence to affect political change is by definition a terrorist.

I've made that particular pledge a couple of times now...in fact, I promised mysef I wouldn't even READ a thread that wasn't razor related.

See how that's worked out for me?

OK, now here's my trouble.
The guy is a murderer. Absolutely. But why terrorist? I mean...why did they go through the theater of calling the bomb squad? Did he make bomb threats? Did he say he was going to kill all the infidels in the great Satan? There seems to be a lot of information missing from the news...

Or, and I might be opening up a whole NEW can of worms, might it POSSIBLY be because he is a muslim, or probably more likely a member of the Nation of Islam (not EXACTLY the same thing, I believe...)?

According to Wikipedia (not an unimpeachable source, I know, but also not total crap), the government uses 5 criteria in the definition of terrorism in line with DHS anti-terrorist action: Violence (Check), Psychological impact and fear (Arguable, could go either way...), Perpetrated for a politcal goal (intent--so it might be, we've not actually been told), Deliberate targeting of non-combatants (Hmmm....recruiters are not active combatants, but they ARE military. The language clearly states that civilian targets are part of the criteria for terrorism...This is the big question, in my opinion); Illegality (goes without saying...).

CNN features the following

"Police have arrested Abdulhakim Mujahid Muhammad in connection with the shooting. He has been charged [sic] first-degree murder and 15 counts of engaging in a terrorist act for shooting at an occupied building. Military officials believe that Muhammad may have been targeting soldiers."

So...Shooting at an occupied building is terrorism? Even if you deliberately target non-civilians? Hmmm....

Originally Posted by nun2sharp

So were the founding fathers terrorists, just trying to refine the definition and not putting words into anybody's mouth.

If you were british.....yes

Originally Posted by JMS

So, by your definition abortion is an act of terrorism. Is that right?

Absolutely not. But I see where you are going (innocent/defenseless, etc). In these two articles I am directing my terrorist comments towards the shooters.

I stated before that I'm not offering my stance on abortion, but you can infer it based on my responses here.

I see the two cases as related in the attacks, but unrelated abortion. Abortion is a whole different animal (especially as it relates to terrorist activities.

Originally Posted by nun2sharp

So were the founding fathers terrorists, just trying to refine the definition and not putting words into anybody's mouth.

Well I don't think so but King George III thought they were for sure. I guess it is like former President Truman said in an interview when asked about the American civil war and Quantrill's Raiders, "The winners write the history". So if you were, like President Truman, from Independence, Missouri they were freedom fighters and if you were from Lawrence, Kansas they were terrorists.