Thread: .410 shotgun

I started with a Steven's single-shot break action .410. Killed a few squirrels with it, then moved on to a 20ga. Never felt the need for the 12, but if I were a duck or goose hunter I might.

AFAIK the 12ga dominance in the english-speaking countries is due to its long history as a military weapon (Brown Bess musket). Same with the 16ga in Europe (Charleville musket).

In addition to being useful for small game (it is de rigueur on a southern quail hunt) .410 is one of the 4 guages shot in competitive skeet shooting. The others are 28, 20 and 12. Most find it pretty ineffective for much else other than when loaded with larges shot and used in something like the Judge revolver, as Smokelaw mentioned, for self defense.

If you are looking to buy a small bore shotgun (not sure that this is the case) something in 28 guage is far more useful. There are a lot of advocates for a 20 as well, but bear in mind that you can shoot shells out of a 12 ga that are loaded with about the same amount of shot that would go into a 20 and the 12 will pattern better.

Originally Posted by Bill S

...you can shoot shells out of a 12 ga that are loaded with about the same amount of shot that would go into a 20 and the 12 will pattern better.

But you're still toting around the weight of a 12ga. My Remington 1100 LT-20 is a pleasure to tote around compared to the R1100 12gauges that my dad and brother use.

Originally Posted by Bill S

There are a lot of advocates for a 20 as well, but bear in mind that you can shoot shells out of a 12 ga that are loaded with about the same amount of shot that would go into a 20 and the 12 will pattern better.

the issue here is axial compression on soft round shot

that is because having the same volume of shot in a smaller diameter cylinder makes the column longer
the 410 is a rather extreme example of this
it's a very long narrow hull
this leads to compressing and deforming the shot and is why they pattern poorly

the 12 is wider than the 20 (think pilsner vs pint mug)\

when the powder ignites the 20 undergoes more axial compression on the shot stack and therefore increase in distorted shot which in turn causes the stream to open up, or pattern to grow in other words

optimally the shot stack will be no taller than it is wide
they call this a "square load'
the 16 is so sweet because of square loads

Originally Posted by mparker762

But you're still toting around the weight of a 12ga. My Remington 1100 LT-20 is a pleasure to tote around compared to the R1100 12gauges that my dad and brother use.

That is absolutely true, and could be significant if you are walk up hunting. That is an activity that tends to require more carrying than actual shooting. If I am shooting really light 12 ga loads in the field I use a Beretta Silver Hawk SxS that only weighs about 6 lbs. The ability to shoot a heavier load out of the same gun appeals to me as well. Sometimes, hunting pheasant, I will use a real light load of 6s in one barrel with a heavy load of 4s in the other. Not that I ever miss with the first barrel, mind you.....

BTW, I also have 20 and a 28 ga shotguns and don't mean to imply that they are anything but great, just pointing out another option with a 12 ga.

Originally Posted by gratewhitehuntr

the issue here is axial compression on soft round shot

that is because having the same volume of shot in a smaller diameter cylinder makes the column longer
the 410 is a rather extreme example of this
it's a very long narrow hull

the 12 is wider than the 20 (think pilsner vs pint mug)\

when the powder ignites the 20 undergoes more axial compression on the shot stack and therefore increase in distorted shot which in turn causes the stream to open up, or pattern to grow in other words

optimally the shot stack will be no taller than it is wide
they call this a "square load'
the 16 is so sweet because of square loads

I agree. This is why I don't prefer the 20 ga loaded heavy. It's really too bad that the 16 ga has fallen from favor.

Originally Posted by Bill S

It's really too bad that the 16 ga has fallen from favor.

truly sad
they called them sweet for a reason

I'd trade my left nut for a Browning A5 16ga

Oh a baby boomstick. I can kind of see it as a home defense package specially for someone smaller but if you plan to do anything more with it it is pretty useless.

Originally Posted by gratewhitehuntr

the issue here is axial compression on soft round shot

that is because having the same volume of shot in a smaller diameter cylinder makes the column longer
the 410 is a rather extreme example of this
it's a very long narrow hull

the 12 is wider than the 20 (think pilsner vs pint mug)\

when the powder ignites the 20 undergoes more axial compression on the shot stack and therefore increase in distorted shot which in turn causes the stream to open up, or pattern to grow in other words

optimally the shot stack will be no taller than it is wide
they call this a "square load'
the 16 is so sweet because of square loads

I've been around guns and have been shooting for my entire life, and I never knew that....THANKS!

ahh the 410 never had much use for one myself. used to be a short shotgun called the snakecharmer took the 410 down to its smallest legal size and as such it might be handy for snakes but still a big gun to carry all day just in case. home defence? well it beats your teeth and fingernails anyday and in a smalish home where over penatration is a isue it could be a plus