Thread: Muscle Car Comeback

Originally Posted by gregs656

That's a complete non-argument though.

I disagree. When you compare engines, you have to compare apples to apples. Of course a 4 cylinder is going to have fantastic performance with a turbo. You can't get down on an 8 that doesn't have a turbo when comparing it to something that does. I have a 350 5.7 liter that can haul ass and 10,000 pounds. It's one of the first engines that featured computerized fuel control and gets decent mileage for what it is (18 highway is my record). If I put a turbo on it, I have no doubts whatsoever I could cream almost any ricer on the road. I'm not even being boastful either.

I'm in complete agreement with Bruno on this kind of power not being for the average driver. I think a non-turbo 6 cylinder is perfect for almost any average application. I like and prefer how the entire rest of the world is using smaller diesel engines that are more fuel efficient and cheaper to maintain. I've always said my next car is going to be a Jetta TDI.

Pio, of course an 8 cylinder Charger will smoke a 4 cylinder Caliber...that's basic math. I said that a Caliber can keep up with a 6 cylinder Charger. I disagree about it being a POS. Having owned one for a year now (and it's the SE or "economy" model), it is one of the best cars made for what it's built to do. It is a moderately quick car, the CVT transmission is the way of the future for automatics, and it's solidly built. The worst mileage I've gotten with it is about 26 in the city. I push 32 on the highway. I'm really not certain what faults it has that would qualify it as a POS.

Originally Posted by Quick Orange

Pio, of course an 8 cylinder Charger will smoke a 4 cylinder Caliber...that's basic math. I said that a Caliber can keep up with a 6 cylinder Charger. I disagree about it being a POS. Having owned one for a year now (and it's the SE or "economy" model), it is one of the best cars made for what it's built to do. It is a moderately quick car, the CVT transmission is the way of the future for automatics, and it's solidly built. The worst mileage I've gotten with it is about 26 in the city. I push 32 on the highway. I'm really not certain what faults it has that would qualify it as a POS.

I think POS might not be the right word...
I just don't like what they did with the car...
style is not the best for a "small" car (i know its not a small car but its the substitute of the neor, which was a small car).
Interior are all plastic...hate them...couldn't be worse!
Engine? Too small for a car that size...
Even the 300hp engine struggle to make 15s on the 1/4 mile...
transmission? Well...dindt like it, maybe because i'm not used to CVT. but they could grow in me...

Even when i like big v8 cars, i think they abandon the small car segment...
What GM offer?
Cobalt? Give me a break! (well the Cobalt Turbo is a fast cheap car...and i digg the speed and effort)

Chysler?
Neon...the STR4 was a fun car...dindt look too bad...and what they did...killed and replace with a Caliber...

Ford?
Focus...Good car for what it does..
I had one and the car was ok...cause it was design and build for europe...
but we never got the fast one...
But at least Ford is getting it right...we will get the fiesta soon, and we MIGHT get the next gen Focus RS...

so the future of small fast american cars seems bright...

i would still get a Challenger, camaro, mustang or G9 GXP any day though...

AS they say "there is no subtitute for cubic capacity"
My wife has been looking for a new car, as there are no children now to cart around. Went looking at smaller cars, test drove a few, she hated them. Could not get used to having to scream the tits of it to go anywhere, having to row the gearstick every 2 seconds to keep the engine pulling, plus they are all front wheel drive so she did not like the way they steered or handled. She said she felt exhausted driving them and could not even imagine driving 1000 klm,s in one. So looks like we will be getting another Comodore, big car, big engine, relaxed motoring on those trips. She actually misses her old 77 GMH TORANA who she had named Tommy, I thought only guys gave inanamate objects names?

I think for a car like the Caliber, you have to look at what they were trying to do: replace the neon with a good budget car for people that don't want to buy something as cheaply done as the Aveo. Who buys this car? People that don't have a lot of money and want something simple to keep up. With all the plastic, I can detail the car in 15 minutes and make it look like brand new. If I spill or break something, I'm not out a bunch of time/money to either clean, fix, or replace it. With the hatchback design, the value oriented buyers can still have something that can fit stuff in it, unlike the Neon.

It seems like your main hang up is the drive train. The car is quite light and fairly aerodynamic. Had they paired the 4 cylinder with a normal automatic, I would whole heartedly agree. However, the CVT really gives the engine the kind of torque and range it needs. It's not going to win any sprints, but I think you'd be surprised at how quickly it can get up to speed in real driving conditions, and how stable it is above 90 (acceleration above 90 is fantastic too).

Anyway, this is supposed to be about muscle cars and the new stuff coming out. Where are the Camaro enthusiasts?!

Originally Posted by Quick Orange

I disagree. When you compare engines, you have to compare apples to apples.

But that's never going to happen, unless you're comparing two of the same engine, or maybe two of the same configuration of engine - but even then you have to consider when it was built and what it's intended purpose is.

The point I was making is that saying 'things would be different if they didn't have turbos' or 'my car would be faster if it had a turbo' is a bit like saying, 'I'd have got 100% on that test if I got all the answers right' - you didn't, so who cares?

It's a complete non-argument, you have to compare what you actually have, and weigh the pros and cons - what you will find is there is no universally correct answer.

I am glad to see muscle cars making a comeback, but unfortunately, I think with the US car manufacturing industry where it is - they're not going to be any great shakes once you look any deeper than the looks and the engine - and all the other stuff counts when you drive it every day as well.

Did you get your Caliber when they were doing them buy one get one free? Or did you guys not get that? Not a bad deal really.

Originally Posted by AussiePostie

AS they say "there is no subtitute for cubic capacity"

Yes there is. It's called boost.

That's how small displacement engines are able make the kind of power that is becoming routine in the modified import circles.

Of course, you can always boost the bigger engine.....but you still get into the area of diminishing returns because of packaging constraints and weight of the engine and associated components.

My vote still goes to a boosted LSX for both bang-for-the-buck and weight. One should be ending up inside my S30 Zcar in the next few years.

Originally Posted by slipangle

Zcar

my next car is going to be a 240Z or 280Z with a mild L67 GM six
I want to try and attach it to a Camaro 5 speed

I'll have piles of room to straighten the exhaust into equal length headers
the engine is completely tunable and will run in two modes, performance shifting, and regular (aka--rain)lol
the trans is out of a V6 which takes away the V8 manual premium price
250 hp 300lbs is your base if you fix the exhaust
not bad in a 2800-2900lb car

I'm not sure how the engine management system is going to deal with removal of the auto trans, but we shall see (assuming the trans will even bolt)



that boost

Just watched this last night. It's Motor Trend's shootout between the 2010 Mustang GT, R/T Challenger, and Camaro SS. I found it funny that their critiques of the cars are similar to mine.

YouTube - Camaro is King! Mustang vs Challenger vs Camaro