Thread: Textspeak, poor grammar and a general grump.

Originally Posted by AFDavis11

The only time I had this much fun was when I was in the Air Force and I would ask a group of pilots if a fly in the ****pit increased fuel consumption while it was flying.

So people like you are the reason the Air Force requires engineering degrees to fly

I really don't mind the occasional grammar, spelling or punctuation mistake in an online discussion. However, I do have a couple of HUGE pet peeves on the subject.

1. No caps. I mean, really, is it all that difficult to hit the shift key at the start of a sentence?

2. No paragraphs. I've seen a few posts where someone had either a great deal to say, or a great deal to ask, and it was one gigantic block of text. One time on a video game related forum, somebody made that sort of post, and the only response the got was, "Wall of text crits you for 1,400 damage. You die."

3. No punctuation. I can understand the odd punctuation mistake. By the time I'm done with this post I'll probably have put an extra comma in; or left one out. But WTF is the deal with people who put up great big posts with absolutely no punctuation.


The worst thing of all however, which I've even seen on this board once, is a post with no caps (or all caps, same thing), no punctuation, and no paragraph breaks. I almost never respond to those posts, because I take one look and refuse to read them.

I draw the line at the big blocks of text with little punctuation and no paragraph breaks. I don't even bother trying to read it.

Originally Posted by Quick Orange

I draw the line at the big blocks of text with little punctuation and no paragraph breaks. I don't even bother trying to read it.

Yep, that is a complete waste of time.

It is perhaps worth noting that the English language is one of the most difficult languages to lean due to the lack of consistent rules.

Ah well, I think you've just got to get on with it until people directly complain.

Originally Posted by Rajagra

Instead of teaching the rules, practicing them, then testing understanding, children are encouraged to write things, then discuss how they feel about what they've written.

When the people teaching English are of the opinion that there is no such thing as "correct" English, is it any surprise that illiteracy rates are constantly going up?

It does seem quite absurd doesnt it. I mean a little digging has given me the following facts:

1. The UK (and the US coincidentally) had the same rate of literacy two years ago. That rate was 99%.

2. Despite this literacy rates worldwide are declining and in the UK in 1999 40% of 11 year olds did not reach the basic standards of English expected in their age group. In fact 100,000 (16%) of school leavers in the same year left school without the basic abilities to read and write to see them through everyday life!

3. In June this year the scottish government decided to introduce testing of literacy and numeracy in schools. This was opposed by teachers and head teachers alike. The reason? They said they dont have enough time to do it. [source:]Latest literacy news from the secondary sector

Now I can well believe the lack of time here. My wife is a teacher and I know how stressed and busy her profession makes her.

However

I also know that there are alot of things that take place in schools that are FAR less important. I mean this is basic reading and writing skills we are talking about here. I am a keen musician and did music as a subject at school but even then could understand how much more important it was to get a good grasp of the language before being able to play music.

The following are a list of subjects taught at Higher (A level in England and Wales, a standard achieved by age 16/17 which is a requirement for entering university) standard in Scotland that I know of. I would consider them to be less important in UK use than basic english grammar:

Hairdressing
Mandarin Chinese
'Care'
Motor Mechanics
Fashion and Textile Technology
'PC Passport' (PC as in computers, somehow different from Computing)
'Practical Craft Skills' (somehow different from Art)
Hospitality
Horticulture




Now of course if you plan on being a farmer you will need horticulture. But not everyone will be a farmer. Of course a hair dresser will need hairdressing. But not everyone wants to be a hairdresser.

Whatever your chosen profession (be it paid by an employer or by the DSS!) you WILL need a basic grasp of the language you speak!

You choose your A levels though, and if you do not have english and maths in your GCSEs, it is difficult to get on any A level course.

Perhaps, but even if that were the case and I wanted to be a farmer i'd concentrate on my three 'r's before I concentrate on my 'arrr's'

Else i'd fall on my 'arse'

Originally Posted by sidneykidney

I also know that there are alot of things that take place in schools that are FAR less important. I mean this is basic reading and writing skills we are talking about here. I am a keen musician and did music as a subject at school but even then could understand how much more important it was to get a good grasp of the language before being able to play music.

True, but there are children clearly capable of learning multiple disciplines without falling below minimum standards in the 3 R's. My 7-y-o has music lessons (in theory and the guitar), goes to football (soccer) sessions, and does a whole variety of home-learning topics the school suggests every term time (science-based experiments at home, essays, projects, etc.).

Every evening since Year 1 (5 years old) we sit him down after supper and make him [1] practice his guitar for 20 minutes; [2] read a chapter of a book he has chosen himself from the school library; [3] learn his Times Tables. I supervise at each of those three activities: teaching him how to pluck and get those notes on the guitar, watching over his shoulder as he reads aloud and helping him learn new words, and verbally testing him on maths skills. Every week day, without fail.

If the school informed me that they were cutting down on some of their less crucial learning areas (i.e. anything not directly related to the three Rs), I would pull him out of school the next bloody day and send him private. Why should my son's all-round education be hamstrung by a school deciding to focus more on subjects to the exclusion of other crucial disciplines? After all, I believe he's doing fine with his studies, so what would be the point of downgrading his learning experience just so that the school can 'up' it's literacy rate and tick those boxes to satisfy the misplaced government targets we have?

What convinced me about letting the school teach English the way it is (which is to say not the way I was taught traditionally) was the result of two pieces of writing he did nearly two years ago. One piece was with my help -- and I very much focused on correct grammar, spelling, punctuation throughout the whole writing process. I noted that he looked unmotivated at times, uninterested in the piece of work in general, and not as enthusiastic as I expected. The piece of writing was good in terms of grammar etc., but to be honest it was crap in every other way. At the next parent's meeting I talked to his teacher as I was concerned about the experiences we were having with work at home. He told me to relax with the grammar and spelling discipline, since at this age it was more important to get the work out creatively.

I did, and the next session he wrote the most amusing, funny and engaging story. So much so that we framed it. Everyone who reads it laughs out loud. The writing and punctuation and grammar is for s**t, but BOY did he enjoy doing the work, he was fully engaged, for a long time, working hard, enjoying the experience, and churned out a great piece of work.

That taught me that getting hung up on grammar and spelling is not always the right thing to do -- sure, at another stage of education standards need to be mandatory, but in some situations an unbending focus on rules and regs can get in the way of real learning and good work.

Originally Posted by sidneykidney

Perhaps, but even if that were the case and I wanted to be a farmer i'd concentrate on my three 'r's before I concentrate on my 'arrr's'

Else i'd fall on my 'arse'

Well, you should already have figured all that out. The point of A levels is for you to be able to apply your english, maths and science is a more self directed way and at a higher level, with higher level skills.

The broader subject choice is not always a good thing, because people can get too focused too fast, but you shouldn't think of them as simple subjects.

Also, not all of the things you listed are A levels. Some of them are vocational courses, BTECs and NVQs and the like.

I think you're idea of further education is perhaps a little off the mark, coming from someone who left college all of two weeks ago and has been in the education system for the past 14 years.

I have a really interesting article on learning, Mark, unfortunately I can't attach it but PM me your email address if you're interested.

Originally Posted by gregs656

I think you're idea of further education is perhaps a little off the mark, coming from someone who left college all of two weeks ago and has been in the education system for the past 14 years.

Sorry i'm confused. Who are you talking about here?

And that would be 'your'. No 'e'.