Thread: Opinions On Gov. Sponsored Health Care Outside of the USA

Originally Posted by hoglahoo

Another way to say it is that the rich can afford to discriminate, while the chronically poor are mostly doomed to be victims of circumstance

Or you could say the poor don't have the experience to judge the system while the rich remember what good care was and miss it.

Any health care system thats based on the fact, that doctors make money from sick people, is crap. (There is a model in switzerland where they get paid best if their patients are not getting sick at all and it works much better!)
They scare people to do more tests than they need and really try finding a reason to make them return to finance their expensive equipment.
They sucked the system so dry that it only provides a very basic care now.
You have to wait months for dates.
You have to pay for many things you need, pay a percentage for everything you need and a one time fee of 10.00 Euro every quarter of the year if you attend a doctor.
The administration of the system is so expensive that it takes a big chunk of the money people put in, doctors are paid lousily now so that they migrate to other countries where they get paid better.
Still - for the very poor a basic health care system is often a life saver.
If the rich people do not participate in it, it will only work poorly (thats the fact over here, because we have both private and public)
Hence we need it for everybody.

I think we've touched on a really important point here. For the poor, who would otherwise have no health care, it can be a god send.

For the very wealthy, it doesn't really matter ragardless of how much they complain about it.


The trouble comes in with the middle class.

A lot of people are concerned about whether their health care would be better or worse. Personally, I don't have any faith in a government beurocracy doing health care any better than the free market. I've never seen a single instance of the gov out performing the private sector, and have no reason to believe that health care would be the exception.



The other thing to keep in mind, is that we're really talking about two different types of government funded health care.

What is being proposed in the US is socialized health insurance, not socialized health care. With socialized insurance, all the hospitals, clinics and other providers continue to run themselves. With actual socialized health care, the entire health care system becomes a branch of the government. The hospitals are owned by the government, and the doctors are employed by the government.

There is a HUGE difference between the two, although I'm not sure which would be better or worse.

I'd love to hear feedback from people in countries with one or the other specifically.

Oh allright! Thanks for pointing this out.
We have the partially socialized health insurance in germany.

I am quite happy with medicare here in Australia. If you have an accident or have somthing life threatening you will get patched up straight away. But if your the type of person that wants a private room or that dicky knee fixed tomorrow not next month you can have private insurance. At least you get the freedom to choose witch.

Originally Posted by Wildtim

Or you could say the poor don't have the experience to judge the system while the rich remember what good care was and miss it.

No, the wealthy have a clear sense of entitlement and think they're so special that they deserve better and better all the time. Poor people appreciate the benefits they have because they so frequently go without what others take for granted.

I just wanted to add that the Italian health system is totally government and, of course, it's not "free" in the sense that income taxes here are close to 50% and there's a 20% Value-Added Tax on purchases. But, aside from that, the quality of life is excellent so and I like the idea that everyone is being taken care of. On the subject of socialism, here's a joke:

What is the difference between capitalism and socialism?

Capitalism is an evil system where you benefit yourself at the expense of your neighbors.

Socialism is exactly the opposite.

Great idea for a thread. Lots of people ask me what's so great about living in Japan, and while there are a lot of great things (ask me about the trains sometimes...) the health care system is, hands down, the best thing about it.

It is government sponsored health insurance, it's not free but it is absolutely universal. If you don't have a job, you don't pay. If you do, your payment is based on your income and number of dependents. It's low, I think I pay somewhere around $80 a month(?)...I'm not sure because it's linked to the Social Security system which is much pricier and the way they figure it is all weird and byzantine.

Anyway, any kind of sickness, ANYTHING, and I know I can go to the doctor, I can get examined and treated (excellent treatment, fast and skillfull...my doctor works magic, I swear) and I pay 30% up to something like $200, after which I pay nothing. "AHA!" You say. "You PAY 30%? Then it's not that great, is it?" Let me tell you..When I got the flu, I went to the doctor, I had 4 IV bottles of...something Japanese...A full treatment of Tamiflu, and some fever medicine. I was in the clinic for a good 5 hours, and the doctor stayed right there by my side AFTER his office closed until the IV treatment was done.

It cost $22.

My emergency tooth filling, done with the latest white epoxy, cost $5.

Government regulations limit the cost of all medications and treatment in Japan, because the government is helping to foot the bill.

And before anyone worries about the doctors--yes, they still drive BMWs and have Rolex watches, so there's still money in medicine.

It's a fantastic feeling to know that me, my wife, any kids we might have, EVERYONE, will get all the treatment they need no matter what happens.

Originally Posted by JimR

Government regulations limit the cost of all medications and treatment in Japan, because the government is helping to foot the bill.

this is the part that i would like to see here. the pharmaceutical industry is soooo big here and why? because that same industry puts out drugs like lipitor that cause other illnesses and side effects and keep you sick. no i am not a conspiracy theorist here, its simply good business strategy on the pharma manufacturers. keep people sick enough to be constantly paying you money, lobby the government to support these products in their health care system, then give doctors kick backs and perks when they prescribe more off your drugs, and give out free samples of new ones to try to get people hooked. does this sound like a business that helps the people?

and no one can tell me that the infamous Bill C51 here in Canada wasn't lobbied in by the pharmaceutical companies because it happened exactly when natural supplement sales were on the rise and pharma sales were falling. a prescription from my doctor (who has no nutritional training) to buy vitamin C? ridiculous! and now the drug companies are trying to cholesterol meds for children. the biggest untapped market! somehow i tend to think that the free market idea may have gotten a bit out of hand in this case. JMO i guess. (sorry if this is bit off the topic )

let's keep on topic shall we??

thanks Jim and Chimensch

who else can speak to price in their country ???