Thread: Health Care in the USA

Originally Posted by honedright

AussiePostie,

The fine point I think is: is one to chip in voluntarily, or must one be forced to do the chipping in?

.

this is exactly the question (from my angle)

I am an incredibly generous person
(ie. today at a party I will give away 3 old Gillette SS and 5 blades with each, a puck of soap cut into 3, 2 shave mugs, some Proraso samples, and 2 old brushes)

however, trying to take something from me is generally not a good idea (assuming you place any value on your hide)


"Chipping in" is one thing

having my private property taken from me under threat of jailing is quite another

I traded my time for that money, and time is the stuff life is made of.
You have no RIGHT to my money.

hope this clarifies for you

Originally Posted by gratewhitehuntr

I traded my time for that money, and time is the stuff life is made of.
You have no RIGHT to my money.

hope this clarifies for you

Yet you pay your taxes, which are used for the greater good. So how is this different.

Let me know if this syllogism doesn't follow.

Life is an inalienable right.
Healthcare preserves and protects life from accidents, infectious diseases, and treatable ailments.
Therefore, we have an inalienable right to healthcare.

If that syllogism is true, then we should be able to go somewhere that is reasonably accessible for healthcare within our means. Now, correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't believe that is true for every American citizen. Sure, there are charities, and they do great work, but relying upon the generosity of another is not exactly reliable.

Thus, how to get healthcare to everyone. One solution is a national healthcare system like they have in Europe. Obviously not very popular.

But what other option is there? Health insurance is much too expensive if your employer does not offer it. Thats just a fact. In addition, they are profit driven and will deny your claim every chance they get. Ie, pre-existing condition, etc. Not much right to life if you have a preexisting condition.

I'm open to alternatives, but unless the states start doing something themselves, the national government seems like the only one capable of tackling the problem. Besides, I think its a national problem.

All that said, regarding medical malpractice laws. That is definitely a state problem. Tort laws are state laws. States need to fix that, not the federal government.

Most health care is given to those who didnt take care of their own health. Aside from accidents, the reason it costs so much is because people dont take CARE of their own health so they need the government to give them welfare healthcare.

The prevention is better than the cure.

Originally Posted by honedright

AussiePostie,

Speaking for myself, and on behalf of what I believe are the sentiments of most Americans, we have absolutely no problem with "chipping in a few dollars" to help out a fellow country man, a fellow from a different country, or even an entire country.

The fine point I think is: is one to chip in voluntarily, or must one be forced to do the chipping in?

America was founded upon principles of individual liberty and freedom.

In order to remain a free people, we understand that we must all chip into the pot a certain amount of "dues" for the national defense.

Just as one individual might hire a body guard, we all, as a nation, voluntarily hire our national body guard.

Or founding fathers, who were highly educated and very well versed in the history of human civilizations, societies and governments, decided after much debate, that a very limited central government with very specific duties and powers, was the best form of government to protect our inalienable rights, among which are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.

Outside of that protection, the founders felt that it was up to us, or the states, to do the rest.

I believe that the record shows that the people of America, of their own free will, are extremely generous.

The bottom line: forcing people to "donate" to charity, either overtly: as at the point of a gun, or in a less obvious manner: as in deducting from ones wages, is inconsistent with the founding principles of this country.

And most Americans, who understand this, object.

Now, I may have not stated the case perfectly, my apologies, but I think I'm fairly close.

I am a still a little confused,
Why do you agree that the goverment can forcefully take your money for the defence of your nations freedoms, have you not just given up a freedom to keep other freedoms, but they can,t take it for the healthcare of the nation, and why do you consider healthcare a charity?
You have also stated that the government is their to protect your inalienable rights, which are "LIFE, LIBERTY, and THE PURSUIT OF HAPPINESS" Well the first word I see there is LIFE and if that doesn,t come under the heading of healthcare I don,t know what doe,s.

What I am trying to say is it seems a lot of Americans are willing to let the goverment take their money to spend on defence to protect their LIBERTY But it can,t take your money to spend on healthcare to protect your LIFE and HAPPINESS.
Please enlighten me, your,s truly

Originally Posted by GregJDS

Most health care is given to those who didnt take care of their own health. Aside from accidents, the reason it costs so much is because people dont take CARE of their own health so they need the government to give them welfare healthcare.

Not true. Because healthcare is affordable here, and except the the US obesity problems, I do not assume that people take excellent care of themselves either.

Sorry Bruno your right, what i meant to say was "most of the health care that is given to people in any country that has a welfare healthcare system is given to those who dont take care of themselves. If you need somebody to care for your health you obviously havnt been doing it yourself".

Now the next thing would be how far do accident come into it, is it your own fault if you have an accident, to what degree is everything in your life your own fault by putting yourself in situations where possible dangers can occur.

I would say even accidents with power tools or getting hit by cars or anything that can happen is your own fault, you accept that risk by walking near a road or picking up a power tool.
The busier the road or more dangerous the power tool the more risk, nobody forces people to pick up power tools or drive or walk on or near roads.
Trouble is most people think their health and their accidents are things that "happen to them" and not something they create.

Best Regards,
Greg

YouTube - Charlie Rangel on Healthcare