Thread: All things being equal would you vote for a VAT?

Now you add the first paragraph...........................

I don't support any taxes

Originally Posted by AnarchoPhil

I don't support any taxes

Hence the moniker.

I don't have time to look into the figures now, Mark, but what you've said IMO is misleading and I've heard that argument before. What is the approximate wealth in dollars of the top 2%? The top 10%? I know the disparity between the ultra super rich vs. the poor has gone from becoming a chasm in my lifetime to a staggering expanse which now separates the two.

That argument IMO is like speaking of the actual dollars that the super rich are paying which seems to go something like this whenever I hear it: "The top 10% wealthiest in the U.S. pay like billions and billions of dollars in taxes; They're paying like tons and tons of money!! While the bottom 50% of the U.S. citizens only pay like 10% of overall taxes collected. Do you see what I mean? Adding dollars rather than a percentage to the wealthiest and then lumping the poorest into a collective pool. What if the top 10% of the wealthiest in the U.S. hold 90% of the wealth? More power to em, I could care less ("Ya gotta serve somebody"). BUT, if something similar IS the case......then they should pay taxes in a proportion to their wealth that others have to pay in proportion to what little they have.

I'm not a soak the rich kind of guy. My opinion simply is if the middle and lower classes have to pay say 20% in taxes, then someone who has a billion dollars in taxable income should be paying 200 million dollars in taxes each year. If such a person DOES pay 200 million in taxes each year I have no beef. If not, cough it up, pal and cry me a river if they try to argue otherwise.

If in theory based on my example the billionaire actually paid 100 million in taxes and you'd say "That billionaire literally paid $100 MILLION DOLLARS in taxes last year. How much more should that billionaire be expected to pay???" I'd reply, " Yawn, another $100 million".



Chris L

Originally Posted by ChrisL

I don't have time to look into the figures now, Mark, but what you've said IMO is misleading and I've heard that argument before. What is the approximate wealth in dollars of the top 2%? The top 10%? I know the disparity between the ultra super rich vs. the poor has gone from becoming a chasm in my lifetime to a staggering expanse which now separates the two.

That argument IMO is like speaking of the actual dollars that the super rich are paying which seems to go something like this whenever I hear it: "The top 10% wealthiest in the U.S. pay like billions and billions of dollars in taxes; They're paying like tons and tons of money!! While the bottom 50% of the U.S. citizens only pay like 10% of overall taxes collected. Do you see what I mean? Adding dollars rather than a percentage to the wealthiest and then lumping the poorest into a collective pool. What if the top 10% of the wealthiest in the U.S. hold 90% of the wealth? More power to em, I could care less ("Ya gotta serve somebody"). BUT, if something similar IS the case......then they should pay taxes in a proportion to their wealth that others have to pay in proportion to what little they have.

I'm not a soak the rich kind of guy. My opinion simply is if the middle and lower classes have to pay say 20% in taxes, then someone who has a billion dollars in taxable income should be paying 200 million dollars in taxes each year. If such a person DOES pay 200 million in taxes each year I have no beef. If not, cough it up, pal and cry me a river if they try to argue otherwise.

If in theory based on my example the billionaire actually paid 100 million in taxes and you'd say "That billionaire literally paid $100 MILLION DOLLARS in taxes last year. How much more should that billionaire be expected to pay???" I'd reply, " Yawn, another $100 million".



Chris L

If we had a flat tax my argument would be nonsense and yours would be sound, but thats not the case is it?

Originally Posted by JMS

If we had a flat tax my argument would be nonsense and yours would be sound, but thats not the case is it?

But, we should!

True. But I assume the top 10% are paying less percentage wise in taxes than the bottom 90% are at present. If that's true than my retort to your rhetorical question about how much more should the super rich be expected to pay would be something like "A lot more.". I don't advocate taking the majority of the super rich's wealth for distribution to the poor, etc. IF the super rich are in fact paying significantly LESS percentage wise in taxes than the remaining 90% than any whining by them or their proponents at the notion of the super rich paying more in taxes get a bunch of these from me . That's all I'm saying.

Chris L

Originally Posted by JMS

I am not sure of the exact figures but is anyone aware that in the US the top 2% of wage earners pay something like 90 some odd % of the total taxes in this country. How much more do you want them to pay?

That's number juggling Mark. those 2 % also earn 90% of the money. Basically, while the people earning less get a leg up, on the whole, everything is percentagewise. So imo it is perfectly normal that a group earning 90% of all income also pays 90 of all taxes.

Here's another twist to this conversation. The rich don't pay really high taxes...

Rich people pay capital gains taxes in large part. High "wage earners" pay high taxes, but there is actually a very small minority of people that fit that criteria. The federal income tax was always sold to the general public as a way to tax the rich, but they have always found ways to get around it. That's why you and I loose so much of our money in taxes. The truly wealthy that we are all thinking of pay significantly less in taxes than what you would think.

Just a thought.

Originally Posted by richmondesi

Here's another twist to this conversation. The rich don't pay really high taxes...

Rich people pay capital gains taxes in large part. High "wage earners" pay high taxes, but there is actually a very small minority of people that fit that criteria. The federal income tax was always sold to the general public as a way to tax the rich, but they have always found ways to get around it. That's why you and I loose so much of our money in taxes. The truly wealthy that we are all thinking of pay significantly less in taxes than what you would think.

Just a thought.

This is my point exactly. Thank you!!!