Thread: Never again!

In 1973, over Cambodia, I blew out of the sky 2 MIG-21 soviet jets ...... in the pursuing 22.45 (v-e-r-y Maeasured) minutes .... I saw the poor face of third (pink cheed) boy I killed, as he strafed me , or I him, I knew EXACTLY what I doing .... I knew it was entirely illegal, both in the USA, and internationally ..... It was (unofficial) It was done as an idiotic practice (mutual US/to test prepardedness, I.m so sorry to all the moms) .... I never will admit to this again! Rest in peace lads ...... I will keep you active!

Peace. To all the children of the world and you deep within your heart as well, David.

Cleansing of the mind is the beginning of cleansing of the soul.

Well done.

Theo

Find fault not within... but towards those that put you in that ugly position.

I have gone to my warehouse of memories and moved many a box to its rightful place. Age and experience allow us to call it like it was.

Peace,

Originally Posted by randydance062449

Find fault not within... but towards those that put you in that ugly position.

Very well said.

Originally Posted by Rik

Very well said.

Hardly. That's the passing blame, since Uthed made it quite clear that at the time of the event, he was very much in control of the situation. He knew in advance that what he was doing was unquestionably illegal, and yet he followed through with the killings anyway. Premeditated.

But hey, it takes a big man to admit something like that, and it's clearly been grating on his conscience.

Originally Posted by Blade Wielder

Hardly. That's the passing blame, since Uthed made it quite clear that at the time of the event, he was very much in control of the situation. He knew in advance that what he was doing was unquestionably illegal, and yet he followed through with the killings anyway. Premeditated.

But hey, it takes a big man to admit something like that, and it's clearly been grating on his conscience.

I'm beginning to think you relish talking out of your ass!! You don't know shit!!!


David...
Sorry for your pain... and for having to put up with the assholes who add to it.

Originally Posted by Blade Wielder

Hardly. That's the passing blame, since Uthed made it quite clear that at the time of the event, he was very much in control of the situation. He knew in advance that what he was doing was unquestionably illegal, and yet he followed through with the killings anyway. Premeditated.

But hey, it takes a big man to admit something like that, and it's clearly been grating on his conscience.

Join the army some time, you may learn a little about how the world outside America works. There is far more bad in this world than good. We don’t chose to be thrown into the meat grinder or the sandbox. There are little things like HONER, SELFLISS SERVACE, AND SELF SACRIFICE involved here. These are some of the values that service members live, die, and sometimes suffer the rest of our lives for. The men and women in the armed forces give up a lot the serve our country, a lot of the freedoms and rights you take for granted don’t apply to us the same way they do to you. Did you know that someone in the military can be brought up on charges for “violating the spirit of the uniform code of military justice”? In other words you don’t have to actually do anything wrong to get hemmed up. Did you realize that 50% of the solders who do the actual fighting for our country are on welfare and food stamps? The army will not pay them enough to feed their families. These are the people who sacrifice themselves and their families to keep your world the clean sheltered little place we call America. So please try to think beyond your limited experiences before you pass judgment.

Mason Rucker (Veteran)

Originally Posted by urleebird

I'm beginning to think you relish talking out of your ass!! You don't know shit!!!


David...
Sorry for your pain... and for having to put up with the assholes who add to it.

How am I "talking out of my ass" by recapitulating what the author of this topic said in his initial post and then commending him for admitting his sins?

I mean, seriously---I'm sure even Uthed would back me up on this one. His post dealt with the pain he had caused those boys and their mothers, and yet somehow you're patting him on the back and calling me the bad guy?

Originally Posted by Blade Wielder

That's the passing blame, since Uthed made it quite clear that at the time of the event, he was very much in control of the situation. He knew in advance that what he was doing was unquestionably illegal, and yet he followed through with the killings anyway. Premeditated.

BladeWeilder, you come off as more abrasive than you mean to. I have often fallen prey to that myself. I have benefitted from NEVER saying the first thing that comes to my mind. That's often an ill conceived emotional response or a shallowly considered idea at best. The second and third ideas lead to different thoughts and very soon a fuller, more complete conception.

Yes, in the moment David's actions were clear to him, but it was a 'him or me' kind of situation and there are few men martyrly enough to lay down at such a time. 'Kill or Die' does NOT put one in a position to be responsible for deaths at their own hands though they can hardly feel distanced from the action itself.

Randy's comment is not 'Passing the Blame' at all since there are powerful people who make descisions about where, when and why soldiers will die while the American soldier himself often enlists because it is the ONLY way he and his family can subsist. Those same powerful people keep it that way because they need poor young men and women to sign up and protect 'their' oil or sugar or whatever it is that they profit from.

In Canada we often think we're above this kind of dirty politics, but we're not. Our population is smaller so we can't get as deep in the muck is all. Our current Prime Minister really wanted to send troops to Iraq, but the sight of millions marching in the streets made him worry about his popular support at the polls. Same thing goes for Ballistic Missile Defence. The PM thinks it's more important to get those plumb military contracts for Canadian Enterprises than building democracy through encouragement and international co-operation.

These are not easy issues to tie down. There are too many important considerations for it to be simple which is why most people say 'I don't care about politics', because it hurts too much to think about. Couple that with an indoctrination at school children ages that your country is the best in the world (whether true or not) and those men in power have the ability to destroy whatever stands in their way. It was just such a situation David was in 22 years ago and it still haunts him. These Vets have personal experience with this kind of exploitation (not that all they are ordered to do is exploitive) and if we ignore their wisdom and experience, we will be back there again in no time not having learned the lessons of history.

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