Thread: Constitutionality of Obamacare

This is a country of free speech....for the sake of this thread fair enough.This forum allows for that .....fair enough.I have been reading all the debate here and have concluded in my own mind that this was not a wise idea for a thread as all it has seemed to do is polarize everybody(Just my puny worthless opinion) .This is a shaving forum...primarily anyway.It's supposed to be(or at least for me it is)a refuge away from the political turmoil of the outside world.As stated,true enough in this section you can bring up discussion of all types.But was this wise? I wonder.Say what ya want,but I'm betting that people here have now subconsciously made opinions of each other thanks to this. Sooner or later this mess is going to be decided upon in a court once and for all......maybe.The lines are drawn and all we can really do is wait for the outcome,good,bad,or whatever.For those who don't feel affected by this thread in any way,that's all good.Sometimes we pose discussions without even thinking of the consequences.sometimes we think it's just an innocent harmless debate with no foresight of how people will be affected.But it does affect people(Yeah,I suppose it affected me).Everyone here is a gentleman and helps each other out with wonderfully silly things like what soap to use and how to fix a blade.Or what's yer favorite food or pipe tobacco ....y'know silly frivolous things like that.Things that make ya forget for a little while what a mad house this world is.I think about politics every day.I think about where I will be in the next year.will I be oppressed or happy?will I be homeless or not?will it be that maybe the country I live in will be in some sort of surreal revolution? It's happened before .It's happened in other countries that call themselves civil...ized .It's happening now.I see the news every where I turn.I think about it all the frappin time....DAILY. You guys are a good bunch.....but was this wise ? Have a good debate fellas,Goodnight and God bless..whatever God you choose to worship.

Originally Posted by Nightblade

This is a country of free speech....for the sake of this thread fair enough.This forum allows for that .....fair enough.I have been reading all the debate here and have concluded in my own mind that this was not a wise idea for a thread as all it has seemed to do is polarize everybody(Just my puny worthless opinion) .This is a shaving forum...primarily anyway.It's supposed to be(or at least for me it is)a refuge away from the political turmoil of the outside world.

SRP does have guidelines on posting political and/or controversial topics. Site staff always keeps a close eye on these types of threads and as long as it stays topical and clear of any obvious personal attacks, we leave it be.

I'm not saying this or that how you should take care for your health care system there, as it is really not up to us who don't live there. For what i've read your system is expensive and not everyone is covered.

This is strange. Public health care system in EU is relatively cheap and works very well. Everyone is covered and it doesn't really matter if it is public or private clinics who do the job.

However i have volunteer health care insurance from the private insurance company for me and my family. It is not better but in some non urgent cases it is much faster to use private insurance. That allows me to walk in any private health station and it will take care of whatever issue i might have. I pay nominal fee of €20 per visit and private insurance company pays the rest. Private insurance costs about 150 €/year for me and about €500 for my whole family. Someone is making money there on your health.

This has nothing to do with your constitution of course.

Originally Posted by Sailor

This has nothing to do with your constitution of course.

The Constitution is brought up over a specific cause in the reform act which states that citizens are charged a fee of ~ $97USD/yr if they choose not to have an insurance plan. There are a few exceptions, but basically we will have to buy a plan or pay the annual fee. Some judges are saying that this clause is unconstitutional and the recent event is that one judge went so far as to say that the entire reform act should be repealed because of this clause.

Right now if you need medical attention, you can get it regardless of citizenship and/or your ability to pay for treatment. Public hospitals cannot deny someone emergency care, and while there are a few hospitals excluded from the actual mandate, I believe all of them still follow it. The annual fee in the health care act was designed to help encourage people to get insurance while also helping to recover the cost of treating people without it.

Originally Posted by commiecat

The Constitution is brought up over a specific cause in the reform act which states that citizens are charged a fee of ~ $97USD/yr if they choose not to have an insurance plan. There are a few exceptions, but basically we will have to buy a plan or pay the annual fee. Some judges are saying that this clause is unconstitutional and the recent event is that one judge went so far as to say that the entire reform act should be repealed because of this clause.

Right now if you need medical attention, you can get it regardless of citizenship and/or your ability to pay for treatment. Public hospitals cannot deny someone emergency care, and while there are a few hospitals excluded from the actual mandate, I believe all of them still follow it. The annual fee in the health care act was designed to help encourage people to get insurance while also helping to recover the cost of treating people without it.

Thank you for clarification,

Just for the interest and still off topic, but how much does this insurance plan cost?

Originally Posted by commiecat

SRP does have guidelines on posting political and/or controversial topics. Site staff always keeps a close eye on these types of threads and as long as it stays topical and clear of any obvious personal attacks, we leave it be.

Yep...thats why I said you got a right to say what you want here.I was questioning the wiseness of it.I was not trying to say this was breaking any rules.I was simply suggesting that we look in ourselves and ask..was this wise?Otherwise ,debate away and go with god etc.

This may have been addressed already in this thread, and if so, I apologize. But it puzzles me a bit that those among our elected officials who decry the new law's requirement that we all buy health insurance or pay a penalty are apparently comfortable with the current system that requires those of us WITH health insurance to pay higher premiums to cover the the costs of health care for those who don't. There seems to me to be an inherent contradiction there, and I imagine that those same elected officials must be aware of it. If that's the case, then it seems to me that this "objection" is being used as a distraction to whip up sentiment against this law in a way that leads people to ignore or forget about the real benefits that accrue to them BECAUSE of the law.

Originally Posted by Durhampiper

This may have been addressed already in this thread, and if so, I apologize. But it puzzles me a bit that those among our elected officials who decry the new law's requirement that we all buy health insurance or pay a penalty are apparently comfortable with the current system that requires those of us WITH health insurance to pay higher premiums to cover the the costs of health care for those who don't. There seems to me to be an inherent contradiction there, and I imagine that those same elected officials must be aware of it. If that's the case, then it seems to me that this "objection" is being used as a distraction to whip up sentiment against this law in a way that leads people to ignore or forget about the real benefits that accrue to them BECAUSE of the law.

Because choosing to pay $7000/year for insurance is democratic, whereas the government telling you to pay $3000/year for the same insurance or face a $100/year fine is socialist.

Are you also saying to eliminate SS and Public schools?

Originally Posted by commiecat

Because choosing to pay $7000/year for insurance is democratic, whereas the government telling you to pay $3000/year for the same insurance or face a $100/year fine is socialist.

Originally Posted by jeffegg2

Are you also saying to eliminate SS and Public schools?

Originally Posted by Durhampiper

Sorry, I'm just not buying that argument. As someone else I think has pointed out in this thread, there are basically two types of people in this world: those who have needed medical attention, and those who are going to. It seems to me that users of the health care system--all of us, sooner or later--ought to have to pay for the use of that system. Right now, I and others like me with health insurance pay higher premiums to cover the cost of treating those who don't. How is THAT democratic? I don't have a choice about paying that portion of my premium. My insurance company doesn't offer me the option of not paying that cost. If you drive a car, the law requires you to have autmobile insurance. If you take out a mortgage to buy a house, you're required to have homeowner's insurance. I think of those things truly as choices. Do we say that the laws requiring insurance in those cases are socialistic? I could choose to rent, rather than buy, a house. I could choose to ride a bike or take public transportation, rather than drive a car. I can't choose to fall ill or not, or to be injured in an accident or not--in short, I can't CHOOSE not to need health care. Two years ago, my older daughter had an injury that made it necessary to have her shoulder completely rebuilt. If we hadn't had health insurance, we couldn't have afforded her care. I guess I could have ditched the health insurance and taken her to the emergency room and expected the insured population to pick up the tab--or bankrupted my family.

I should have clarified that I was being sarcastic with my post. I'm all in favor of health care reform. We pay too much for too little and our health statistics -- including financial -- are far below the national systems used by most (all?) of the developed countries.

The opposition uses terms like socialist and nanny state in regards to European systems. They'd rather pay their exorbitant prices because they can (democracy!) than have their tax dollars go towards funding programs that assist all Americans, even if they're included (socialism!). I got the numbers from here: in '07 we paid about $7300 per capita versus $3000 in the UK.