Thread: What do you think will happen when...

Originally Posted by commiecat

I think we currently spend more than that with our existing health care program. What numbers are you citing and comparing here?

Those were cited as likely premiums for the average family with about a 40-50K income with Gov't subsidies.

Not up to speed on this, but I would think any comparisons to the current monthly cost are invalid because the current system is failing. There are fewer and fewer particpants so the costs for the remaining insured go up at an ever increasing rate.

What evidence is there that the system is failing?

I'm hoping for a revolution if it's signed into law.

Originally Posted by honedright

What evidence is there that the system is failing?

We pay to much, we get too little, our outcomes are worse than most other countries, health Insurance Companies are some of the wealthiest Companies in the U.S even during hard times, eventually few will be able to afford insurance at all. Is that enough?

Originally Posted by thebigspendur

We pay to much, we get too little, our outcomes are worse than most other countries, health Insurance Companies are some of the wealthiest Companies in the U.S even during hard times, eventually few will be able to afford insurance at all. Is that enough?

You say we pay too much and get too little, but I don't know if this is true in every case, or even in most cases. I'm not exactly sure what you mean by "too little."

Outcomes are worse than most countries? What countries and what outcomes exactly? Personally I've never experienced a less than expected medical outcome. Mistakes do happen, but once again, is this the exception? If our system were that bad wouldn't Americans flock to other countries for care? If they are, is it a big secret?

Health insurance companies could only be wealthy if they are doing something right. A company doesn't become wealthy by making mistakes, does it? No one forces individuals to pay health insurance companies. So if people are paying voluntarily, there must be some perceived benefit. Unless we are to believe that all those people, including all of us, are just plain stupid with money. I prefer to give people more credit than that. And insurance companies are not going to price themselves out of the range that people can pay for their services. That would be suicidal and stupid.

Besides that, what do you think all of those wealthy insurance companies do with all that wealth? Don't they pay employee salaries which pays for living expenses? They purchase business supplies, computers, software, etc. Possibly invest. What's wrong with all of that? I don't begrudge any business or individual for using their ingenuity and guts to become successful and wealthy. Who, with the same abilities, wouldn't want to do the same?

The more people who join a health plan, the lower the premiums, correct? Add to that more health plans competing for the same group(s) of people, should bring about even lower premiums. Am I wrong?

Is it true that health plans in one State can not sell policies to individuals in another?

And is it true that one reason for increased cost is due to out of control malpractice and tort litigation?

I still think that any form of national health care is just a quick band aid fix and will end up creating more long term problems than it will seem to cure in the short term.

Originally Posted by honedright

You say we pay too much and get too little, but I don't know if this is true in every case, or even in most cases. I'm not exactly sure what you mean by "too little."

Outcomes are worse than most countries? What countries and what outcomes exactly? Personally I've never experienced a less than expected medical outcome. Mistakes do happen, but once again, is this the exception? If our system were that bad wouldn't Americans flock to other countries for care? If they are, is it a big secret?

Health insurance companies could only be wealthy if they are doing something right. A company doesn't become wealthy by making mistakes, does it? No one forces individuals to pay health insurance companies. So if people are paying voluntarily, there must be some perceived benefit. Unless we are to believe that all those people, including all of us, are just plain stupid with money. I prefer to give people more credit than that. And insurance companies are not going to price themselves out of the range that people can pay for their services. That would be suicidal and stupid.

Besides that, what do you think all of those wealthy insurance companies do with all that wealth? Don't they pay employee salaries which pays for living expenses? They purchase business supplies, computers, software, etc. Possibly invest. What's wrong with all of that? I don't begrudge any business or individual for using their ingenuity and guts to become successful and wealthy. Who, with the same abilities, wouldn't want to do the same?

Excessive corporate greed in any type of industry is a shame and IMO ends up causing more damage than good for most. However, placing blame with insurance companies and viewing them as reaping endless profit is not correct. I'm in agreement with you there. It's a long established game between health insurance companies and their contracted providers; providers increase their R&C charges (Reasonable and Customary) on services and insurance companies set a lower contracted rate. The contracted rate increases each time the R&C increases. If the R&C for a doctor visit in a certain area is $150 today the insurance company may pay $100. Next year the R&C may be $300. The insurance company may then pay $200, etc.

One thing no one talks about is the dramatic change, skyrocketing overall health costs that started in the early to mid nineties and I believe in large part due to drug companies being allowed to advertise in the media. I believe the rise in health care costs if viewed on a chart would climb like the Matterhorn in correlation with the change in drug laws.

There are a lot of players contributing to this mess. Group health offered by ANY employer other than large corporations? That will simply be an impossibility for the average employer very soon and already has been for many small businesses.

Chris L

Maybe it's off topic, but what exactly is excessive corporate greed?

Originally Posted by ChrisL

It's a long established game between health insurance companies and their contracted providers; providers increase their R&C charges (Reasonable and Customary) on services and insurance companies set a lower contracted rate. The contracted rate increases each time the R&C increases. If the R&C for a doctor visit in a certain area is $150 today the insurance company may pay $100. Next year the R&C may be $300. The insurance company may then pay $200, etc.

Chris L

Maybe the problem is that the patient/ consumer is not the one participating in deciding the Usual and Customary (that's what it was called when I was in practice) rate.

Originally Posted by honedright

Outcomes are worse than most countries? What countries and what outcomes exactly?

Worse than the vast majority of industrialized countries. #1 in cost and #37 in quality of healthcare. Yes, I know you are #1 in survival rate for a specific cancer... read the original paper in its entirety, you'll see that's almost the only sample survival rate in which America looks good amongst industrialized countries.

Before you repeat the media-fed "long waiting lines, bureaucrat between the patient and the doctor, dieing in the waiting room", what your media is spouting flies in the face of the first-hand experience of every single person I know in Europe... and I have been working all over Europe in the last 17 years.

Up to date, the only time I had to wait in a European hospital is when a soldier got his legs crushed in an accident on the closest military ground. The hospital stabilized my injury and treated that guy first, I had no issue with that... his condition was more life-threatening than mine. If they hadn't done it automatically, I'd have volunteered to give him priority.

Originally Posted by honedright

If our system were that bad wouldn't Americans flock to other countries for care? If they are, is it a big secret?

I don't know if it is still the case, but a few years back there was a lot of specialized medical tourism... Dental work in Mexico being one example.

Yes, I know that people from many other countries do flock to America for treatment. It would be interesting to see the split on treatment type, a non-random guess: cosmetic surgery, cosmetic surgery on minors (forbidden in Europe), experimental treatments.