Thread: What do you think will happen when...

Originally Posted by honedright

I just wanted to comment on these two statements of yours.

I agree with you that health care should be affordable. I think the disagreement is the method to achieve that goal. You seem to think the government is a savior. In this case I think it is an impediment.

The part of your statement that stood out to me was the "keeping me healthy" part. You do, of course, realize that only you have control over keeping you healthy? And that is limited greatly by your genetics? I'm not necessarily saying this about you, but there seems to be a huge misconception (or is it blind faith?) about traditional medical practice, that they are somehow omnipotent. Not saying that the medical profession doesn't help. Medicine is mostly, if not entirely, reactive to illness, as opposed to proactive. Medicine, in general, doesn't do much until after illness occurs. Prevention is mostly, if not entirely, an individual responsibility. So keeping you healthy is really your job. And after you become sick, it is really a crap shoot as to whether medical treatment will restore you to some level of health. It may be a total restoration, or a partial one. And in some cases, no restoration at all. Ask any Doctor a prognosis and it will be given in percentages (you know, the old 50-50 chance of recovery bit?), and without any guarantees. It's because none of them really knows what will happen. There is an old saying that: "God does the healing, the Doctor collects the bill." Meaning that the outcome of medical treatment is really an unknown, except for the payment part.

The other statement I basically addressed in my second paragraph. I think government is an impediment - when and where it doesn't belong. I don't believe that government, in and of itself, is slimy and shady. Certainly there are administrations that fit the slimy catagory. I happen to believe that the current one fits this. But government certainly has an important and essential role. And I personally want government to perform it's role. In fact I gladly pay government to do it's job. It's when government steps beyond it's role (and history shows that when governments do this they generally fail miserably), and especially the role defined by state ratified founding documents, that I, and many conservative minded persons, have a disagreement.

Huh?

You seem to make the assumption that the majority of instances where people need medical care is some crapshoot with bad outcomes. Only a tiny percentage is in this category. Most folks go to a doctor for a problem and it is taken care of and they fully recover or if its a pain or disabling condition they receive treatment which allows them to function in comfort.

You have this general fear of Government and you are transposing that to specific instances where you are unwilling to consider government can do a good job. On the other hand you seem to think the health Insurance Industry is the way to go when the system which they control is falling down around us. yea I know you don't think that's the case. All I know is the checks I write each month keep going up at an alarming rate and the plan keeps shrinking.

Originally Posted by MinniesMate

Your log-in name says it all and why.

I have no idea how that contributes to anything, but since we're passing judgment based on usernames I guess I shouldn't take anything written by you seriously.

Originally Posted by thebigspendur

Huh?

You seem to make the assumption that the majority of instances where people need medical care is some crapshoot with bad outcomes. Only a tiny percentage is in this category. Most folks go to a doctor for a problem and it is taken care of and they fully recover or if its a pain or disabling condition they receive treatment which allows them to function in comfort.

You have this general fear of Government and you are transposing that to specific instances where you are unwilling to consider government can do a good job. On the other hand you seem to think the health Insurance Industry is the way to go when the system which they control is falling down around us. yea I know you don't think that's the case. All I know is the checks I write each month keep going up at an alarming rate and the plan keeps shrinking.

Actually most folks go to a doctor, or the ER, with complaints of self resolving conditions such as headache, backache, colds, and flu where medical treatment is usually not necessary. Don't know the current numbers, but this is a huge waste of time and money.

BTW, I don't have a general fear of government. My fear in regards to government is very specific.

Just wondering about all those who do not use medical services due to religious or personal belief, and possibly do not want health care insurance.

As a former alternative health care provider, I know that there are many who shun allopathic medicine in favor of alternative methods. There may even be some who just don't want to bother with medicine. Maybe they just accept that when it's time to go, it's time to go.

Should the Baucus bill pass mandating all Americans purchase health care insurance, how will those individuals be handled? Will they too be forced to pay or be fined? Or will there be some exemption?

Originally Posted by honedright

Should the Baucus bill pass mandating all Americans purchase health care insurance, how will those individuals be handled? Will they too be forced to pay or be fined? Or will there be some exemption?

Are they paying (as a form of taxes) for all the other services provided by state? Fire depts, schools, police, military, etc etc. If not, then they will find a cause to stay as a freeriders and not pay for their medical care as well.

Originally Posted by honedright

If 15% are uninsured then 85% are insured. That's failing?

That's what, 60 million people?

Sure, that's failing.

In this country, those who choose not to have major medical services don't get them. However, they still pay the tax. I think a lot of people who have those convictions would appreciate the rights of people who do. Also, they still have the right to that system them selves, if they're faith should fail them at their moment of need.

Originally Posted by gregs656

That's what, 60 million people?

Sure, that's failing.

In this country, those who choose not to have major medical services don't get them. However, they still pay the tax. I think a lot of people who have those convictions would appreciate the rights of people who do. Also, they still have the right to that system them selves, if they're faith should fail them at their moment of need.

Even the new health bill will not cover 100% of Americans. According to your logic even that will be failing.

Originally Posted by commiecat

... but since we're passing judgment based on usernames I guess I shouldn't take anything written by you seriously.

I honestly don't know what my wife has to do with it or why you would think it funny. What a jerk.

Originally Posted by honedright

Just wondering about all those who do not use medical services due to religious or personal belief, and possibly do not want health care insurance.

...

Should the Baucus bill pass mandating all Americans purchase health care insurance, how will those individuals be handled? Will they too be forced to pay or be fined? Or will there be some exemption?

Actually, the Baucus Bill is just a smoke screen to divert attention away from the bill that is sponsored by Spkr. Pelosi. Her bill is to be attached to one that already passed the house dealing with a tax issue. It is to come before the Senate next week.

Under that bill, all Americans will be required to purchase insurance. If they don't they will be subject to a $25,0000 fine and up to 12 months in prison. As for those that object over religious reasons, the proponents will argue the Constitution prohibits the respect of religion and treating those who object to conventional medical treatment for religious reasons will have to purchase the insurance anyway.

Reform>>>> Must Be!!! If not, We are screwed!!

Government Control>>>>> Must not be!!! If so, We are screwed!!!