Thread: Help me pick my 9mm

I may have jumped the gun here (no pun intended), but I picked springfield. The reason for this is that I HATE the feel of the glock (but I think it's a good gun, just not for me). So, I picked springfield because I like them compared to the Glock.

i am thinking though that if I had it to do over I'd pick other and say I'd get a sig/sauer. I liked that one the best so far.

The Sig is beautiful and is the rolls royce of semi autos but the Glock is the Ford pickup. I baby my sig and clean it after any shooting. The Glock has been shot for hundreds of rounds and rides in my van having never been cleaned and never malfunctioned. It is ugly and beat up but it is indestructible.

Keep in mind that "rising to the occasion" is rare. Most people sink to the level of their training. (That's a near-quote, but I don't remember who said it first.)

Being proficient with your weapon is the most important thing, and then being competent with any other weapon you might have to use. Use the largest that you can comfortably and accurately fire. My suggestion is for you to go to a range and talk to the guys that work there- especially if it is an NRA or DNR range. Tell them you're a newbie and offer to pay for some ammo if they'll let you try out their guns. I've met few people that don't like to share their love of firearms.

Take a hunter's safety course. Take a CCW course. These will give you knowledge and experience, as well as contacts who can help you better than a bunch of guys that like to shave. I can't see your hands, your body position, your body shape, so I'm not going to comment much on what you should or shouldn't use. Find what you can use well. You don't want to be fighting your weapon while fighting someone else. Everything about your weapon should be nearly instinct- repeated correctly so many times that you can no longer do it incorrectly.

My wife was reading over my shoulder and started talking about how her dad always hated the 9mm, and how most people don't have the skills to follow up appropriately. I agreed with her. From what I've seen, the people that don't have the skills to follow up appropriately with a 9mm very often don't have the skills to place one shot accurately with a .45.

Use what works for you. You will have to try many different weapons. There is no way around this. Gun ranges are to guns what SRP meets are to razors, but for guns, and open nearly every day. It boggles my mind that people who so often say, "Use whatever (razor/cream/soap/brush) works for you" are getting so commanding about pistols.

I often hated teaching pistol for the Army- the Beretta frame is big for many people's hands, and that makes it hard to handle. Far worse than that, though, was the ego that jumped out of each and every man there as soon as the class was announced.

So, in short:
Try as many pieces as you can.
Learn as much as you can.
Try as many techniques as you can safely handle.
Set aside techniques that don't work for you now. (Keep that tool in the toolbox for later.)
Practice good habits correctly. (Practice makes permanent, not perfect.)

Good luck.
J.

Originally Posted by jfreaksho

So, in short:
Try as many pieces as you can.
Learn as much as you can.
Try as many techniques as you can safely handle.
Set aside techniques that don't work for you now. (Keep that tool in the toolbox for later.)
Practice good habits correctly. (Practice makes permanent, not perfect.)

Good luck.
J.

The above is a great admonition for straight razor shaving and honing as well.

Originally Posted by JokiJo

wtf?

I'd think that entire paragraph through a little more. There is many reasons to own and carry a gun.

To own, yes. Sports, hunting, etc...
To carry... only to shoot someone.
To carry an not being prepared to kill is not good. By pulling / showing a gun, you raise the stakes significantly. If the other guys calls your bluff, you're dead.

If you end up shooting someone, the only concern should be to stop the attack as decisively as possible. The wellbeing of the other guy is not the primary concern.

The OP already indicated he has problems with the concept of killing someone. This means he runs the risk of hesitating if he ever needs to pull the trigger. If your gun comes into play, it should be in cases where there is no other option left, and you should be prepared to use it and accept the results.

I am with Tim on this topic.

Btw I just voted 'other'. I have no experience with guns, and anything I would buy would be an uninformed decision.

Instead, I would visit GWH (assuming we did not live on opposite sides of the world) and ask him to help me pick a gun that is right for me.

Originally Posted by GeauxLSU

Speaking from my experience in kuwait, use the .45. Three hits at 15 feet lifted the Republican Guardsman off of his feet and slammed him into the wall of his trench. I'd like to see a 9mm do that.

I voted "other." I've fired the Glock and think it's junk, the Springfield is OK. I really like the Dan Wesson Commander.

LOL.

Chambering	7N21 9x19mm variant	7N31 9x19mm variant
Bullet weight	5.3 g (82 gr)	4.2 g (65 gr)
Muzzle velocity	460 m/s (1,509 ft/s)	600 m/s (1,969 ft/s)
Muzzle energy	561 J (414 ft.lbf)	756 J (558 ft.lbf)
Maximum pressure	280 MPa (40,611 psi)

Bullet weight/type	Velocity	Energy
165 gr (10.7 g) Federal Premium Low Recoil JHP	1,060 ft/s (320 m/s)	412 ft·lbf (559 J)
185 gr (12.0 g) Corbon DPX	1,075 ft/s (328 m/s)	475 ft·lbf (644 J)
200 gr (13 g) Speer Gold Dot JHP +P	1,080 ft/s (330 m/s)	518 ft·lbf (702 J)
230 gr (15 g) Speer Lawman FMJ	830 ft/s (250 m/s)	352 ft·lbf (477 J)
Test barrel length: 5 in Source: Midway USA[2]

So...how does that pick a man off his feet, exactly? I've shot a 22 pound .50 caliber rifle and it didn't throw me off my feet, let alone a pistol caliber generating little more then 20 pounds of recoil. A 30-06 or a 12 gauge shotgun barely carry enough energy to drop a 9 year old. I doubt a pistol caliber has enough to lift a grown man off his feet.

First, some good discussion here!

I agree with a lot of what has been said. If you are not prepared to kill someone that is threatening your life, or the lives of your family members, then you're better off NOT having a gun on you. Cause when you hesitate, and the guy kills you, then not only have you failed in protecting yourself and family, but you've potentially put another firearm in the hands of the bad guys.

Jimmy, I like the analogy between the RR and the Ford pickup

The Glock can indeed go for long periods without significant cleaning, but how many people really need that feature? Not only that, but for a LOT of people, the Glock grip is NOT comfortable. Not to mention no DAK system on the Glock.

Sig is really the RR of semi's, and if you've never seen how one is made, or been in one, those darn things are made like TANKS.

Once again, it may cost ya a little more, but I think the Sig is the way to go, and never point your gun at anything you are not prepared to kill. Two in the chest, one in the head. I'd like to see em get up from that!

Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

The Sig is beautiful and is the rolls royce of semi autos but the Glock is the Ford pickup. I baby my sig and clean it after any shooting. The Glock has been shot for hundreds of rounds and rides in my van having never been cleaned and never malfunctioned. It is ugly and beat up but it is indestructible.

Originally Posted by JokiJo

LOL.

Chambering	7N21 9x19mm variant	7N31 9x19mm variant
Bullet weight	5.3 g (82 gr)	4.2 g (65 gr)
Muzzle velocity	460 m/s (1,509 ft/s)	600 m/s (1,969 ft/s)
Muzzle energy	561 J (414 ft.lbf)	756 J (558 ft.lbf)
Maximum pressure	280 MPa (40,611 psi)

Bullet weight/type	Velocity	Energy
165 gr (10.7 g) Federal Premium Low Recoil JHP	1,060 ft/s (320 m/s)	412 ft·lbf (559 J)
185 gr (12.0 g) Corbon DPX	1,075 ft/s (328 m/s)	475 ft·lbf (644 J)
200 gr (13 g) Speer Gold Dot JHP +P	1,080 ft/s (330 m/s)	518 ft·lbf (702 J)
230 gr (15 g) Speer Lawman FMJ	830 ft/s (250 m/s)	352 ft·lbf (477 J)

So...how does that pick a man off his feet, exactly? I've shot a 22 pound .50 caliber rifle and it didn't throw me off my feet, let alone a pistol caliber generating little more then 20 pounds of recoil. A 30-06 or a 12 gauge shotgun barely carry enough energy to drop a 9 year old. I doubt a pistol caliber has enough to lift a grown man off his feet.

Numbers mean nothing when it comes to results. From your paragraph, you're talking recoil, which again has no correlation to the energy a bullet expends upon striking a target, especially a human target. Besides, I pulled the trigger, I saw the hits, I saw the Iraqi lifted and slammed. I was there and you weren't.

There is one immutable fact here. A .357 is nothing more than a souped-up .38 Special. The actual caliber of BOTH is .357. Basically a thirty six caliber. A 9 mm is basically a thirty six caliber. I'm NOT, never have been and am not likely to EVER be impressed by the performance of a thirty six caliber. It is lackluster, AT BEST.
There was a study done a number of years ago, regarding one shot stops, among common handgun calibers. I don't remember who did it and at this point, I am tired enough of the harangue over the superiority of little bitty bullets, that I am not inclined to search out the magazine that published the report.
The bottom line was that the .45 ACP had a record of one shot stops that rated in the mid, to high nineties (that's percent of the time.) .38s, .357s and 9 mms ranked significantly lower. There's "Looks Good ON PAPER" and then there's the REAL WORLD. BTW, the study I referenced, was of documented cases, taken from Police records and involving Police Officer shootings. They were all very recent to the actual time of the study. It wasn't a compilation of three shootouts, it was rather in depth. Take it for what it's worth, or look it up. Shouldn't be too hard to find with a Google Search.
The body's reaction differs from one person to another, there's fatigue, there's physical condition and 'present frame of mind' and the greenhouse effrct, the apogee of Uranus and brylcreem. There are MANY variables and there is also pure, dumb luck. ALL of these factors play a part in how a person reacts when they are hit in a firefight.
So carry whatever you want to and trust your life to it. I'll do the same. I just tend to trust a big, relatively slow moving bullet. I know what it will do and I know what I can do WITH it.

"Just because something isn't true, that's no reason you can't believe in it."
Robert Duvall, in SECOND HAND LIONS