Thread: A Health Care Scenario

I have heard this from classmates of other countries. However, European medical students are not required to have college degrees in most cases. Their training as such is considered inferior in the US and so they have to complete residencies here in order to practice where as a US student can practice anywhere after residency (in most other countries). If their is going to be socialized healthcare dictating doc pay, then there should be no such thing as malpractice if you are on a government plan. Doctors should also expect tax payers to pick up every dime of their school debt as well because the government is going to concerned with cutting costs, then help the docs out and nationalize medical education as well. The biggest worry is the kids who become docs from nothing in the US get a lot of debt have no recourse with their creditors. We can't tell them, "we treated a lot of patients and helped society and the people or insurance companies decided not to pay us".
I appreciate the character comment, but I have soo far to go. I just got done with a rural rotation and it was great. The people loved their surgeon and he loved them,(meaning he goes to church with them and knows them by name). I want to be on call every night an work hard, I just don't want to move to a place and care for people and then have to move because I can't run my office. I truly hope I finish a life saving operation and die right after when I am 90 (or however long I make it). I intend to work forever because I love medicine. I have lived near many large cities and worked in them. I have also seen medicine in the third world under a socialist system. I just don't like entitlements, I like people who are grateful, and I have seen little of that in NYC, but I saw it every day in the south.

The IT company is a bad example because that is a dime a dozen and computers can be replaced, people's lives and their well being is my concern. I know and understand what you are saying though. People in rural areas deserve equal care to the cities where the care is often free and better for dead beat drug dealers and illegal immigrants than tax paying responsible citizens.
I see it as only fair to serve them as well because they are least grateful for the care they can get, where in cities they feel entitled. I intend to go to Britain for a rotation and at least I will see the other system in its real form. friends of mine there form the US (my school trains docs for worldwide practice), that there is less waste, but you have to wait or live in pain before you get operations you could get in the US quickly (my example is gall bladder surgery).
Rob, I agree that pricing should be set for ALL medical services and that government or private insurance should have to pay the set price or else be banned from the industry.
Thanks for all the comments though.

Government run anything will fail! How will it fail? I will enslave it's people with higher and higher taxes and in the end it will never be enough, never is. Name one government program that we have in the US that is not on the verge of being bankrupt. That is why a lot of us don't want it. Unfair taxation is the reason that people through the years have come to the US. When the government needs more money they intrude in every part of your life to get the money. Most Europeans don't even know that they have been violated because the government has done it incrementally and slowly. This is not an indictment, or Europe bashing, it is just that the people are overrun by the governments they have and we don't want it here. Both parties are to blame for the lack of medical care for 20 Million people and it has gone on for decades but the current legislation that is being proposed will not even address those poor souls.

Take Care,
Richard

I think people are confused about the public option. The public option will be something that you or your employer can choose to subscribe to. It will be affordable and not free, and the intent is for it to eventually pay for itself.

Some people use terms like ObamaCare and socialized medicine to describe the reform. You will not be forced to choose the public option. If you pay for Blue Cross / Blue Shield, then you can keep it. You'll still be able to see specialists and have elective surgeries.

The public option, IMHO, will allow the 45M+ uninsured American citizens to get health care. The public option will not deny care to you because you're a risk or have an existing medical condition. The private insurance companies will need to remain competitive to keep their customer base, which I can only imagine will result in them lowering costs and/or providing more benefits if they want to stay in business. It will also force them to compete against each other in all markets, instead of having regional monopolies like they currently do.

I still do not understand why anyone outside of the insurance companies would be against this. I don't think I've ever heard anyone tell me that they loved dealing with insurance companies.

With the American govts history of waste, corruption and self indulgence, anything they do scares me. The system we currently have needs a lot of work. But honestly is your Senator or Rep up to the task, do you really think they are responsible enough to be trusted with your money, let alone your own vitality, health or existence? Do you really want to pay for all of the bureaucracy that will be sure to make this not work? They do not even read most of the stuff they sign off on, why should they, it doesnt apply to them.
End of rant, my apologies.

That's the real issue, American government programs. Seems to work just fine in a lot of other countries, we are just too greedy as a nation.

Originally Posted by nun2sharp

With the American govts history of waste, corruption and self indulgence, anything they do scares me. The system we currently have needs a lot of work. But honestly is your Senator or Rep up to the task, do you really think they are responsible enough to be trusted with your money, let alone your own vitality, health or existence? Do you really want to pay for all of the bureaucracy that will be sure to make this not work? They do not even read most of the stuff they sign off on, why should they, it doesnt apply to them.
End of rant, my apologies.

It's an option. If you don't like it, you can keep your current insurance.

RE: Government run anything will fail: I can't speak for their budgeting, profits and loss, but I went to public school/college and it worked out fine for me. I've traveled across this country on its public roads. I get my USPS mail on time every day.

Obviously I'm for the public option and health care reform. I'm not for big government (I know my posts in these threads suggest otherwise!), but I think there are a few areas where they can a service for few which will make things better for the many.

Originally Posted by commiecat

I think people are confused about the public option. The public option will be something that you or your employer can choose to subscribe to. It will be affordable and not free, and the intent is for it to eventually pay for itself.
I think by adding the choice, it could hurt the system further. See my previous post.

Some people use terms like ObamaCare and socialized medicine to describe the reform. You will not be forced to choose the public option. If you pay for Blue Cross / Blue Shield, then you can keep it. You'll still be able to see specialists and have elective surgeries.

The public option, IMHO, will allow the 45M+ uninsured American citizens to get health care. The public option will not deny care to you because you're a risk or have an existing medical condition.
The addition of more customers to the system would be a good thing for sure. The more customers, the bigger the market and the more potential leverage each insurance Co has with hospitals on care pricing.
The private insurance companies will need to remain competitive to keep their customer base, which I can only imagine will result in them lowering costs and/or providing more benefits if they want to stay in business.
Alternatively, they could recognize an unprofitable situation and migrate away from the industry altogether. This might not be bad as long as we are left with some providers.
Also, it is hard for private companies to reduce costs when people are demanding services they might not need or are convinced to buy drugs that are more expensive to the insurance company than they need to be (i.e. getting a coupon from big pharma to make the generic and the name brand the same price or make the NB cheaper just so big pharma can keep market share and charge the insurance company. You may save $10 on the copay but the Insurance Co might pay 100's more for the name brand drug.)


It will also force them to compete against each other in all markets, instead of having regional monopolies like they currently do.
Those regional monopolies allow them to compete on price by virtue of having market share. This whole thing is counter intuitive.


I still do not understand why anyone outside of the insurance companies would be against this. I don't think I've ever heard anyone tell me that they loved dealing with insurance companies.
And when is the last time you heard someone say: "I love dealing with the Government?"

I hope that the effect of a public option is to increase the customer base significantly. If the Public Option had tons of leverage that it strips from the private market, it might drive private companies out and leave only hyper expensive boutique healthcare available to the very wealthy.

If, on the other hand, the public option enters the market and can manage to create its own market share from a blue ocean of non-insured, it might allow the government to demand pricing and see the benefit of price control over insurance control.

This is a tough issue.

-Rob

Originally Posted by sicboater

I hope that the effect of a public option is to increase the customer base significantly. If the Public Option had tons of leverage that it strips from the private market, it might drive private companies out and leave only hyper expensive boutique healthcare available to the very wealthy.

If, on the other hand, the public option enters the market and can manage to create its own market share from a blue ocean of non-insured, it might allow the government to demand pricing and see the benefit of price control over insurance control.

This is a tough issue.

-Rob

I guess we'll respectfully disagree on this. Options and competition, IMHO, will only help the patients/consumers. That's how capitalism works, and I'd compare it to how the USPS competes against UPS/FedEx. I'd be curious to see what UPS rates were if the USPS weren't around.

Regional monopolies aren't a good thing to me, especially regarding insurance. If you're a risk or have existing conditions, how is it good to have a single provider that is going to either charge you exorbitantly, or opt to not cover you at all?

There are few companies that I'd place below the government in regards to who I'd rather deal with, but the insurance companies are one of them. It's not like your Congressman is going to be taking your temperature. The nurses, doctors, specialists and hospitals will remain the same, it's the payment/reimbursement process that is getting changed.

The rest of the industrialized world has something similar. Currently American citizens pay the most for health care, yet have some of the worst statistics.

Originally Posted by commiecat

The rest of the industrialized world has something similar. Currently American citizens pay the most for health care, yet have some of the worst statistics.

That's exactly it. I mean, if we are realistic here, what is the worst that could happen from implementing an option? Millions of Americans uninsured because they can't afford it?

I don't know why people seem to think that by adding public healthcare the quality of the care will drastically drop immediately.

Originally Posted by treydampier

I have heard this from classmates of other countries. However, European medical students are not required to have college degrees in most cases. Their training as such is considered inferior in the US

you have to wonder how the rest of the world is still alivethen?
I am very much sure the medical text books are the same herein US and abroad, and really taking a bunch of useless classes helps how in your doctors education?
Madical students before specialization take 6 years to just become M.D. and they also take all the biology, biochemistry, physics etc that is required to become a doctor.