Thread: Climate change and religion

Originally Posted by xman

ZENN Motor Company

Let's see:

Maximum speed 25 mph
No mention of range at that speed but I bet it isn't much
Does it have an air conditioner, how about a heater?

Still sounds like sexed up golf cart to me.

Originally Posted by fccexpert

Let's see:

Maximum speed 25 mph
No mention of range at that speed but I bet it isn't much
Does it have an air conditioner, how about a heater?

Still sounds like sexed up golf cart to me.

Max range on a single charge - 40miles. Charging time - 8hrs. Not highway approved. $15-20k price tag.

How many miles can you actually do in that vehicle per year? Even if you fully utilized it and did 40*365 or 14600 miles, you can do the same distance for 350 gallons of gas in a Honda Insight that is under $20k too. The annual gas consumption difference would be 300 gallons if compared with their 280mpg figure. That is less than $900 savings. What is the longevity of their battery pack and how much is its replacement? I could not find that at their site.

If you do ten miles a day for seven days a week (likely to happen in a small urban area as recommended by the manufacturer), the difference drops to around $200.

It takes a green brain and masochist tendencies to get one of those.

Originally Posted by sparq

Max range on a single charge - 40miles. Charging time - 8hrs. Not highway approved. $15-20k price tag.

How many miles can you actually do in that vehicle per year? Even if you fully utilized it and did 40*365 or 14600 miles, you can do the same distance for 350 gallons of gas in a Honda Insight that is under $20k too. The annual gas consumption difference would be 300 gallons if compared with their 280mpg figure. That is less than $900 savings. What is the longevity of their battery pack and how much is its replacement? I could not find that at their site.

If you do ten miles a day for seven days a week (likely to happen in a small urban area as recommended by the manufacturer), the difference drops to around $200.

It takes a green brain and masochist tendencies to get one of those.

This is the kind of problem I spoke of in my previous longer post; Individuals are lambasted with misappropriated guilt and told that we should eagerly "do the right thing" and lead by example by spending our money on such green and eco-friendly crumbs (extremely small vehicles with limited range, etc) available today and that, don't worry, the bigger eco-friendly/green vehicles are just around the corner. What motivation do the manufacturers and the oil companies have to drive such change?

To sum up my irritation I expressed previously, the problem, the eco problem, the environmental problem as I see it is a problem at the TOP of the pyramid. The pollution, waste, damage and inefficiency on a global scale during the manufacturing processes by mostly large corporations who have influenced the laws globally to allow themselves to continue to operate in this manner indefinitely to an exponential degree more than the problem is at the hands of the end users and consumers.

I also believe that the notion that carbon tax, carbon offsets, and that the belief of those at the decision making level for such change is ultimately to rid the WORLD of anything non "green" and make the world a clean planet is a sham. Large corporations that pollute will absolutely continue to pollute since they already produce products in countries that I understand would not be regulated and instead would be exempt. We pay for the product and the idea of a carbon tax is that we pay again for the entities that create the damage in gross proportion compared to the populace without any real input or control over how those entities operate in regard to their harmful practices.

Chris L

Originally Posted by fccexpert

I did a little basic research on the Gulf of Mexico dead zone mentioned in an earlier post by icedog, and what I found was quite illustrative of how his religious fervor can affect perception and reporting of facts.

I don't understand your accusations of "religious fervor". I have no religious beliefs at all. You aren't qualified to accurately make any such personal statements about me. I can only surmise your goal is to simply be disrespectful toward me. Well, now I'm going to cry. Apparently you are going to believe whatever it is that best suits your purposes.

Have a good weekend. Maybe you can find a few barrels of used motor oil and dump them into a river near your home. You seem to believe it wouldn't do any harm to anything.

Originally Posted by ChrisL

I think it's undeniable that the areas of the earth suffer from pollution and poison at the hands of many. However, my huge problem with finger pointing at the individual and really placing blame on the individual is backwards. I don't have a coal fired power plant in my yard. I don't manufacture and release that DuPont chemical that doesn't degrade and has pervaded the entire planet to the poles. I don't make things as a communist government and continue to pollute the air and ground in irresponsible ways. I don't own a cruise line and dump large volumes of waste from my ships directly into the ocean. I don't make inefficient cars that pollute, I don't refine petroleum and then in either instance, pay untold millions to lobbyists to suppress change which would allow for cleaner burning or zero emission vehicles..................I could of course go on and on ad nauseum but I think you all get my point.

"We make stuff in ways that are bad for the earth, but YOU buy that stuff so YOU'RE the problem. YOU should be penalized/taxed."

It's a con, it's a dupe, it's a bad deal.

Chris L

Chris,

I am not familiar with these political things. I have a general belief than mankind has caused great damage to the environment. I also like to think that we can do less damage. I have seen the pollution levels in Long Island Sound increase and then, after legislation to regulate dumping into the rivers of Connecticut, decrease and marine life come back toward a healthy level. My attitude is that each person can only control himself and should be aware of his impact on the environment. I think we can watch the waste of resources and generation of non-biodegradable trash. I am not very passionate about this issue. I don't run around trying to change the world. I do try to do my best to have as little impact on the Earth's ecosystem. It seems very simple, at least in my mind, to recognize the right and wrong of the issue. Twenty years ago I remember small fishing boats tying up with two or three fishermen and over a hundred dead bluefish. Because there were no limits at the time, men went out and killed ludicrous numbers of fish, only to bury the things in their gardens or toss them dead and rotten into dumpsters. The schools of fish had dwindled because they were overfished. Now, the fishing ain't nearly what it once was, but if regulated, the schools can come back.

I have no "guru". I don't even know what that means. But I like to think I have some modicum of common sense. Perhaps I am wrong but I will continue to do what I think is least harmful to our life giving planet and I hope, regardless of the political arguement, others will too.

Brad

My take on the environment is this. We live in it. All of us. It is one of the few things in this world that directly links all humans regardless of location or race, and in fact all living things to each other.

It supports us, nurtures us, nourishes us, houses us, and enables all our earthly endeavours. What we do in it and to it inescapably affects every single thing on the planet.

The only issue in my mind is the "how". As in, how does doing something affect everything else?

I may disagree with people's "hows", or how they came up with their "hows", but I cannot escape the underlying truth of our enviro-interrelatedness, or our enviro-dependence.

To me it's about respect. We are living in the Universe's House. Don't leave dirty washing in the sink. Don't punch holes in the wall. Don't trash the backyard. There's more than just you living in this house. Have some respect.

James.