Christmas poll

**sffone** · 12-15-2009, 11:32 PM

Originally Posted by Jimbo

I voted yes. But I bet Jesus was well-annoyed that his birthday was on Christmas!! They *say* you get double the presents, but it never really works out that way...

James.

Thanks for the chuckle!

**ControlFreak1** · 12-15-2009, 11:33 PM

The Bible is the greatest history book / historical record of the ancient world. Some people are rather selective in what they want to accept as historical record or reliable historical record. The next question may be - did all of those authors exist?

**Sirshavesalot** · 12-16-2009, 12:10 AM

Christmas is the Catholic church trying to convert Germanic peoples "Oh Tananbaum" the use of christmas tree is a replica of the pagan ritual of harvesting a pine tree to a pagan god, I forget whom or who. The tree means shit, and Santa, or St. Nick is an Italian tradition from some town, I forget that too.

Anyways its hodgepodge of differing events, histories, beliefs and some other events such as the altering of the Julian Calendar to fit certain events, hence the schism in the Catholic/Eastern Orthodox churches.

I think Jesus was born, was he the man history and religion has taught us he was ( Christian beliefs here) well I disagree.

I think Jesus was as Wilde said in the "Soul of Man Under Socialism" "a dynamic individual, who propounded the ideas of individualism and spontaneous love" I paraphrased it there not word for word.

I think "The Soul of Man Under Socialism" is probably one of the best works about Jesus, and what he stood for and how amazing a dynamic individual like him was to the world, the idea of spontaneous love is amazing and I agree with Wilde the best message he had.

And for those history buffs read Heroditus.

ok cheers
David

**razorgal** · 12-16-2009, 12:35 AM

No, I do not believe that there was a Jesus that turned water into wine or that raised the dead. I believe that there could have been a man called Jesus. But I do not think that it has been scientifically proven either way. The name "Jesus" may have been common name back then.

Rosie

**ControlFreak1** · 12-16-2009, 12:42 AM

I'm sure that Wilde and his boyfriends really wished that Jesus was like he speculated. Unfortunately for Wilde, Jesus isn't. Wilde was just a wild storyteller.

**59caddy** · 12-16-2009, 01:01 AM

Originally Posted by razorgal

No, I do not believe that there was a Jesus that turned water into wine or that raised the dead. I believe that there could have been a man called Jesus. But I do not think that it has been scientifically proven either way. The name "Jesus" may have been common name back then.

Rosie

so i guess pontius pilate was not a real person either?
Pontius Pilate

**matt321** · 12-16-2009, 01:27 AM

These folks would vote no. It gets interesting at about 13:00 when it draws parallels between the Egyption god Horus and the biblical story of Jesus. This has been around for a while, but I don't know how accurate it is concerning ancient myth.

(Warning, very disturbing.)

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...1422995115331#

**Seraphim** · 12-16-2009, 02:13 AM

[QUOTE=matt321;507716]These folks would vote no. It gets interesting at about 13:00 when it draws parallels between the Egyption god Horus and the biblical story of Jesus. This has been around for a while, but I don't know how accurate it is concerning ancient myth.

(Warning, very disturbing.)

Do a quick search on Horus, Isis, etc. Isis is listed as Horus' mother, and concieves horus with her husband/brother Osiris. Hardly a "virgin" birth story. These guys are obviously reaching to make a point. I do not think the actual facts back up what they are presenting as a slam-dunk.

**JimmyHAD** · 12-16-2009, 03:40 AM

Here is a great book on the historical and the biblical Jesus by Bart D. Ehrman.

text below copied from the author's bio;

He is the James A. Gray Distinguished Professor at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill. He came to UNC in 1988, after four years of teaching at Rutgers University. At UNC he has served as both the Director of Graduate Studies and the Chair of the Department of Religious Studies.
A graduate of Wheaton College (Illinois), Professor Ehrman received both his Masters of Divinity and Ph.D. from Princeton Theological Seminary, where his 1985 doctoral dissertation was awarded magna cum laude. Since then he has published extensively in the fields of New Testament and Early Christianity, having written or edited twenty-three books, numerous scholarly articles, and dozens of book reviews.

**ZMKA** · 12-16-2009, 06:11 AM

[QUOTE=Seraphim;507745]

Originally Posted by matt321

These folks would vote no. It gets interesting at about 13:00 when it draws parallels between the Egyption god Horus and the biblical story of Jesus. This has been around for a while, but I don't know how accurate it is concerning ancient myth.

(Warning, very disturbing.)

Do a quick search on Horus, Isis, etc. Isis is listed as Horus' mother, and concieves horus with her husband/brother Osiris. Hardly a "virgin" birth story. These guys are obviously reaching to make a point. I do not think the actual facts back up what they are presenting as a slam-dunk.

Not a slam dunk, but very compelling when you consider the religion of many of the Roman soldiers of that time. Mithraism.

(Please don't read the next part)

Mithras, who pre-dated Jesus, was represented by the sun. He (the sun) died and was resurrected every day as a reminder of how he saved humanity from Taurus and then rose from the dead. His disciples were the 12 signs of the zodiac. He was celebrated by a flesh and blood ritual, which was actually celebrated by eating the flesh of a bull (Taurus) and drinking its blood. But in the absence of a bull, they would simply sacrifice a lamb... or just drink wine and eat bread.

Other pagan dieties who also pre-dated Jesus were sacrificed on crosses, born of virgins, visited by 3 wise men, etc...
Jesus appears to be an amalgam of these. It is refuted by some Christian apologists as an attempt by Satan to send people on the path to disbelief in Jesus.

I welcome any facts to the contrary, most particularly if anyone can provide contemporaneous evidence of a Christ, I would be thrilled to look at it. I have studied the bible and other religious texts for years, at first as a Christian but more recently just out of interest. Evidence to the contrary of my statements is very welcome.
I've read McDowell's stuff... he's a quack. If you don't think he is, PM me and we will talk.

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