Thread: Stem Cell research

Originally Posted by Seraphim

Why would you think my posts drip sarcasm any more than say a post such as this? Aren't we on the same page here?

I wasn't being sarcastic. Those are my thoughts on the topic.
If you weren't being sarcastic, then I apologize. I was asking for clarification to be sure. That's all.

difficult to answer the survey because it did not specify what kind of stem cell research. I support, enthusiastically, the use of adult stem cells because they have had great success in growing tissue in organs and whatnot. There have even been great strides in using a patient's own skin cells to draw stem cells from that researchers have been able to grow lung tissue with. (Reader's Digest article, "Stem Cell Stunner" March 2008). The article pointed out that there is a huge advantage over embryonic stem cells because, by using the patient's own cells there is no risk of rejection.

I do not support or can condone in anyway the use of embryonic stem cells. The last I have heard about the subject, there had still not been ONE major breakthrough or development in using these cells for any treatment. There is nothing that a scientist can do with embryonic stem cells that can not be done infinitely more successful with adult stem cells.

Anyway that's my opinion for what its worth.

Originally Posted by Oglethorpe

I wasn't being sarcastic. Those are my thoughts on the topic.
If you weren't being sarcastic, then I apologize. I was asking for clarification to be sure. That's all.

Your sarcasm meter wasn't way off....

Originally Posted by Seraphim

Your sarcasm meter wasn't way off....

Aha! I knew it!

That was a mean trick, man!

Had me thinking I was offending people.

Originally Posted by Oglethorpe

Aha! I knew it!

That was a mean trick, man!

Had me thinking I was offending people.

You very well may still be offending people.

But not me!

You glovebox hooch drinker!

Originally Posted by Seraphim

And seeing as how you are unable to pin down when exactly that magic moment is, we can just paint with broad brush strokes until people start to recieve the benefits gleaned from this new method. And by then they'll be hooked! At that point we won't have to answer any questions, because people will have stopped asking them.

It is sort of like how we have reached the point we are at: provide fertility treatments, which most people will see as a "good" thing. And everytime we do, we fertilize many more eggs than could actually be used by a couple themselves, and so these go into storage. Eventually we have such a backlog of embryoes that would otherwise "be discarded", and it makes the use of the embryoes seem like a "good" thing as well.

Sure, some may quibble at the fact that if the very same embryo had been implanted it would also have become another child, just like the ones that were actually used in the fertility treatment itself, but those people are overly sentimental and are not looking at things with a critical eye!

Oh come now...the fact that no one questions it makes somethnig no mroe or less moral. On this I'm sure we agree.

I'd still like a direct answer/response to my question though. WHY are you opposed to embryonic stem cell research? Because, if implanted, that embryo would have possibly turned intoa human? Or IS that embryo a human? Or is the whole process so close to "playing God" that the act itself is immoral? Or do you wnat people to die a horrible, painful death? (one of these answers is not serious.)

Originally Posted by smokelaw1

Oh come now...the fact that no one questions it makes somethnig no mroe or less moral. On this I'm sure we agree.

I'd still like a direct answer/response to my question though. WHY are you opposed to embryonic stem cell research? Because, if implanted, that embryo would have possibly turned intoa human? Or IS that embryo a human? Or is the whole process so close to "playing God" that the act itself is immoral? Or do you wnat people to die a horrible, painful death? (one of these answers is not serious.)

What else would it have turned into? A Hippopotomus?

Originally Posted by smokelaw1

Oh come now...the fact that no one questions it makes somethnig no mroe or less moral. On this I'm sure we agree.

I most certainly do not agree with you on that. Aren't morals pretty much determined by society as a whole? And as such, if you can influence the majority of the people's views on a subject, you can then bend what would previously be morally objectionable into something that is now morally acceptable. Euphemisms are great ways of accomplishing this goal.

I teach Biology and Genetics and this is a topic we cover substantially in my courses. I just stumbled across this post and do not have the time to write a huge response, but I would like to just share a piece of information in regards to embryonic stem cell research most do not know, that is well... stupid, for lack of a better word.

Anyways, it is indeed illegal in this country for government supported research facilities to conduct research on embryonic stem cells. This is due to the debate about "When are humans actually living humans"... is it not until they are born, as soon as an egg is fertilized with the sperm, or somewhere in between? I understand this dilemma fully, and by all means would not want to be the guy or government organization responsible in designating this.

What most people do not know though is that when a woman decides she would like to be in-vitro fertilized the docs fertilize more then just one egg, in fact they usually fertilize around 20. This is because some eggs are not successfully fertilized and there are measures that allow for some choice between which egg should be used. Ok cool, the result though is that you end up with more fertilized eggs then are needed (Remember, it only takes 1!). This is done because it is an extremely invasive procedure to harvest eggs from a woman, and thus it is not reasonable to harvest one egg at a time... better to "get a bunch while you are there" sort of thing. Anyways, once an egg has been chosen and successfully takes to the woman we have a couple options...

1) The woman can choose to have the eggs frozen to save for a later time in case more kids are wanted... great!

2) If the remaining fertilized eggs are not wanted to be saved, they get tossed... in most cases, literally being washed down the sink. No Joke.

So, it is illegal to perform scientific and or medical research on embryos, but not illegal to wash them down the drain... Oh, I forgot to mention also that out of the embryos that are saved for potential use at a later date, the majority of those never get used and in fact get "freezer burnt", literally, and are then also disposed of.

So, I myself do not define when a human life is indeed a human life, but the fact of the matter is we have hundreds of thousands of embryos available to conduct meaningful medical research on each year in this country that are literally thrown in the trash... my stance... Why not use them?

Originally Posted by Seraphim

What else would it have turned into? A Hippopotomus?

LOL, that's good. I'm still giggling. Of course not, it is a pretty well known (and sadly known to my family and I) fact that not all embryos go on to be a child for any number of reasons. Many of those reasons are quite beyond our understanding or our help.

Originally Posted by Seraphim

I most certainly do not agree with you on that. Aren't morals pretty much determined by society as a whole? And as such, if you can influence the majority of the people's views on a subject, you can then bend what would previously be morally objectionable into something that is now morally acceptable. Euphemisms are great ways of accomplishing this goal.

For the sake of argument, let's say that society creates morality (it can be debated, but this isn't the place for it). Getting people to stop asking the questions, and stop EVEN THINKING about the morality of a subject does NOT equate to the subjet being morally accepted by the society. Getting people to ACTIVELY DECIDE tat a thing is moral or not is slightly harder, I would think. Once this decision is made, THEN, under the premise above, that thing would be mroal or not. THis is again a different dioscussion (though a fun one!)

And yes, euphamisms ARE a good way to do that, as are dysphemisms.