Thread: Health Care Reform; States suing as unconstitutional

Originally Posted by hoglahoo

No I don't, and I do have a choice

Sure you can break the law. For most people that isn't a rational choice.

And why snip the rest of what I said? That's what you're really complaining about.

Originally Posted by MistressNomad

We aren't asking for charity. We're asking you to contribute to something we want to give you for a tiny fraction of what you're paying now.

Who is we? Are you a congresswoman? Anyway, if this is referring to the bill being signed into law, no I'm not being asked. I'm being told to purchase something whether I decided I need it or not, and am being given a range of options by the government what I can purchase. And you're implying that if I don't need it, I should do it for the charitable benefit. I maintain I should be allowed to choose how I want to benefit charities because I feel I earned the power (money) to do that

Originally Posted by MistressNomad

As to your last point? No, there aren't.

Sure there are. Every dollar I have is a way to help someone else. That's why the government says it wants part of it, so it can help people for me.[/Quote]

Originally Posted by MistressNomad

The limitation of ability applies equally to those with or without insurance, and thus has nothing to do with this.

that was free, I won't even require a tax for it

Originally Posted by NYCshaver

why snip the rest of what I said? That's what you're really complaining about.

Ok I'll try again

Originally Posted by NYCshaver

You have to pay taxes. You have no choice.

You don't get to pick and choose how your tax money is spent.

No I don't, and I do have a choice. And I don't have to break the law either. And I can pick and choose how my money is spent by lobbying congress with my loads of evil money

PS I'm not complaining about not having to pay taxes; in fact I am happy that I have the option. or were you referring to something else?

You're being told to purchase it for a better price than what you're already paying for, so that I don't have to pay for a huge chunk of your bill the next time I need health care.

Spread about between 300 million people, it's a tiny amount of money.

Well, you pay for public education. Even for kids who won't graduate. Even if you homeschool your kids.

Or do you want to rob children of education because of "your choice" and "your needs" too?

Originally Posted by hoglahoo

And I can pick and choose how my money is spent by lobbying congress with my loads of evil money

No you can't.

Originally Posted by hoglahoo

PS I'm not complaining about not having to pay taxes; in fact I am happy that I have the option. or were you referring to something else?

Yes something else.

Originally Posted by MistressNomad

You're being told to purchase it for a better price than what you're already paying for, so that I don't have to pay for a huge chunk of your bill the next time I need health care.

Spread about between 300 million people, it's a tiny amount of money.

Right. I'm not being asked, I'm being told. There's the difference we now agree on

Originally Posted by MistressNomad

you pay for public education. Even for kids who won't graduate. Even if you homeschool your kids.

No, only if I pay those taxes. If I have no obligation to pay them (if my income is non-taxable, or if I have no income ie. living on inheritance, etc), then the only public education I pay for is of my own choice, rather than a government entity forcing my hand.

Originally Posted by MistressNomad

Or do you want to rob children of education because of "your choice" and "your needs" too?

Of course not - my desire to be free from an economically oppressive government is not an equation with stinginess in my personal finances.

Originally Posted by MistressNomad

hoglahoo - Nope, they can't. And while it isn't technically kosher for the hospitals to eat the bills, they are doing so more and more frequently. The chances of the debt being paid are virtually zero, so it makes more sense for them to spread the debt out over those who are insured.

So here's the irony. We already have public health. But only the wealthy are paying for it, and they're paying the highest possible amount for it (emergency treatment).

So if you guys are so worried about your damn money, that right there is a good reason why we need universal health care. You're already paying for it. But you could be paying a lot less, and getting a lot more out of it.

I, someone who isn't particularly well-to-do, am offering to help you pay for it and give you something back for it. Why won't you accept?

hardblues - You seem to have this picture in your mind that poor people are a bunch of fat welfare queens who have spent their entire lives meticulously planning how to steal from the rich while doing as little as possible.

Your entire lifestyle is based on what the government thinks you're entitled to, and what all of us collectively are paying for, as commiecat's quote demonstrates quite humorously. That's how modern living works. You simply wouldn't be able to set up or pay for all of it on your own. Even if you had the money, you wouldn't have enough hours in the day.

You're riding on the back of entitlement just as much as everyone else. The only difference between you and them is that you got lucky and happen to have some extra luxury money. Money you can only have because the people and the government believe you're already entitled to an all-expenses-paid modern lifestyle.

Actually, that's not true. There's another difference between you and them.

They can see, through the lense of poverty, not their own sense of need, but an entire community of people in need. If you honestly think these people are sitting back and eating grapes while they get their big fat welfare checks, you're delusional.
No one is out to steal your money. Stop protecting it like a baby. I sure as hell don't want it, if this is what money does to people. Keep your money, and I'll keep my human compassion.

All we're asking is for you to give back to the society which has propped you up on its shoulders all your life.

I've agreed with most of what you've posted up to here (the bolded section). I would say the truth is a bit of both. Many have done more than been simply lucky to get where they are. They worked or studied while others partied or watched TV or whatever. There are plenty of people who "play" the system and have skewed priorities. How many time have I've seen "poor" people with the latest cell phones or brand new $250 sneakers?...

There are also plenty of folks as you and others have pointed out who do all the "right" things and still can't get what they need.

Jordan

Originally Posted by NYCshaver

No you can't.

I can, actually

Originally Posted by NYCshaver

Yes something else.

Ah. In that case the context from me which you quoted did not contain the alleged whine, and I do not feel confident in responding to the (probably accidentally) misreferenced assertion

Originally Posted by hoglahoo

Right. I'm not being asked, I'm being told. There's the difference we now agree on

No, only if I pay those taxes. If I have no obligation to pay them (if my income is non-taxable, or if I have no income ie. living on inheritance, etc), then the only public education I pay for is of my own choice, rather than a government entity forcing my hand.

Of course not - my desire to be free from an economically oppressive government is not an equation with stinginess in my personal finances.

Yes, we do agree on that. Just like you're told to pay for public ed, public streets, the police force, the electricity company, and everything else that makes your life possible.

Stop going for technicalities. Yes, you can win the lottery and never work again, or run off int the woods. But you are making all meaningful discussion impossible by verging off into the ridiculous.

They're saving you money, and saving lives. It's not stinginess. It's a complete disregard for your fellow man. Your fellow man, by the way, who have the built the entire infrastructure you can now enjoy.

Originally Posted by hoglahoo

I can, actually

nope

Originally Posted by hoglahoo

Ah. In that case the context from me which you quoted did not contain the alleged whine, and I do not feel confident in responding to the (probably accidentally) misreferenced assertion

I made no mention of a whine.